TRACEE HUTCHISON, HOST: You're listening to Fierce on Broad Radio, Tracee Hutchison here with you. Great to have your company. We hear a lot don't we about the gender pay gap, the significant difference in salaries between men and women and efforts to address that divide. Well, a new report this week shows that pay gap is slowly narrowing with women earning $79 cents in every dollar men earn, still probably a gap that's a little too big for my liking and our liking. The report coincides with some legislation tabled in federal Parliament this week that will mean companies with more than 500 employees will be required to set gender equality targets. That legislation was tabled jointly by the Minister for Women, Katy Gallagher and the Assistant Minister for Women, Kate Thwaites. Kate Thwaites joins us now on Fierce and on Broad Radio. Kate Thwaites great to talk with you.
KATE THWAITES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY, AGEING AND WOMEN: Wonderful to be with you, Tracee.
HOST: I know you've become a big convert of Broad Radio and you've downloaded the app and we're very pleased to have fans in big places.
THWAITES: Thank you. It's a fantastic initiative. I've been really enjoying listening.
HOST: Kate we got you on today to talk about that legislation that you have tabled this week along with the Minister for Women Katy Gallagher and that latest report into the gender pay gap. But I really do want to acknowledge, given that we have a member of the Australian Government with us here on Broad Radio, to acknowledge the death, the tragic death of the 19 year-old Bianca Jones after drinking a methanol laced drink in Laos and her friend Holly Bowles remaining on life support. We did see the PM on his feet yesterday speaking to this in the federal Parliament. How is the Government supporting the families, Kate Thwaites?
THWAITES: Tracee, this is just so tragic isn't it, and I think for so many of us we feel this because this sort of trip is a rite of passage for many Australians, travelling elsewhere and spreading your wings. For such a tragic thing to have happened really is devastating. Our sympathies are absolutely with Bianca’s family. Yes, we did mark it in Parliament yesterday, both the Prime Minister spoke and Zoe Daniel who is the local member where Bianca’s family live, and the Leader of the Opposition too on the fact that that family are very firmly in our thoughts at this time. The Government through the Department of Foreign Affairs both here in Australia and also in Laos are providing assistance to that family and to friends that have been impacted. Because we do understand that it really is a family's worst nightmare and the family will need a lot of support.
HOST: And I think all of us have travelled Kate, all of us have done these trips. And so I don't think there would be many people at whatever age we're at that wouldn't be feeling for those families now and we thank you for acknowledging that and that acknowledgement in Parliament yesterday. To the issue then that we invited you to spend some time with us this afternoon to talk about. It's another issue that occupies a lot of thought as well, around the parity or the lack thereof of remuneration and a new scorecard released this week by the Workplace Gender Equality Agency that shows the gender pay gap slightly dropping. Women earning 79 cents for every dollar men earn. What does it tell us, though, about where the heavy lifting still needs to happen?
THWAITES: That is a great question. It does feel a little bit strange saying this is good news when we still have that gap there, but this is the lowest gender pay gap has ever been, based out of reporting on it since 2014. And what the data this year tells us is the improvement that we've seen has largely come from the work that our Government has done to improve wages for women who work in what are low-paid caring sectors, particularly aged care where we've provided a 15% pay rise, that is an area along with early childhood education where for a long time, these have been industries that are mainly dominated by women and they're not paid in the same way as industries that are dominated by men. We’ve done a lot of work to improve the wages in those areas. There is more work to be done to improve the gender pay gap. And when I talk about this, I want to be really clear about why we do this work, we of course do this work because it's good for Australian women. It is outrageous that Australian women go to work and get paid less than men. But we also do this because it's good for Australian families and it's good for our country and our community more broadly. The gender pay gap, as it stands in fact represents a cost of $51.8 billion a year to the Australian economy. So there's huge productivity gains for us as well in doing this work.
HOST: We're with Kate Thwaites who is the Assistant Minister for Women in the federal Labor Government. Kate, you also introduced new legislation this week that will mean companies with more than 500 employees will be required to set gender equality targets as part of their reporting to the Workplace Gender Equality Agency. What difference in real terms will this make to women in the workplace, Kate Thwaites?
THWAITES: What we’re trying to do with this is to accelerate the progress. I talked about some of the good things happening, but the gap is not closed yet and there is more work to be done. So what we're doing now, if you're a large company, if you employ more than 500 people, what we will expect you to do is to set three gender equality targets in your workplace and have a plan for how you're going to work to do those and achieve them and you'll have three years to do that. And the targets you can draw from come from options like the gender makeup of your board or the gender makeup of your workforce, the pay gap in your business, whether appropriate flexible working arrangements are in place, the consultation you provide in the workplace on gender equality, as well as efforts to prevent and address sexual harassment. These are all areas that we know make a difference to women in the workforce and as I was saying, also make a difference to businesses and companies more broadly, and are actually good for them as well. Companies will select three of those, they'll have support from WGEA to help them make sure the appropriate plans are in place to achieve those targets. And they'll have to report back to government through WGEA on their progress. But if they don't get there, if they're not showing significant improvement and work to achieve them, they will not be issued with what's called a certificate of compliance that means they’re eligible to procure government work.
HOST: So it's sort of a carrot and stick approach as well, and you're confident that obviously its research based, you're confident that this kind of strategy can deliver those sorts of aspirational outcomes?
THWAITES: The research tells us that having companies set the targets, but also having those incentives to meet those targets is what will really help to accelerate progress that we have made, but that we want to see happen faster and happen more broadly. And as I said, it's not intended to be a punishment. We do want to work with employers. We know that employers actually do want to do this work and that many are going to bring the focus. So we want to be working with them to make sure that they've got the strategy in place to actually achieve these targets, that they're setting significant targets and that ultimately we are making workplaces better for Australian women and as a whole, more productive places. I think basically we've all had experiences as women and workplaces that have done better or worse at some of those measures. We can think about the times where you can see that a company has put effort in to some of those things, the very big difference it makes in a workplace. I have one from the Australian Parliament at the moment actually for me, while it isn’t a measurable target, it does show what happens when you put that thinking hat on around what does it look like, when you have it in the workplace. One of the things our Government did introduce in this term of Parliament was we decided that after 6.30 at night, there were no more divisions. Now, prior to that, Parliament could vote all the way up to 7.30 and often, reasonably often would sit quite late. The change saying no votes after 6.30 means you can leave the building at that time. That change means that for someone like me with a three-year-old, I can bring my son to Parliament with me. He can go to the childcare in the building, I can then get him home to bed. It's actually a massive difference there. So when employers are focused on these types of things and thinking about them, it does make a difference, I think.
HOST: Kate Thwaites is with us, the Assistant Minister for Women in the federal Labor Government. Kate, you talk there with a very personal lens on what it means to introduce this kind of legislation or be part of lawmaking through the government. And to lift the veneer a little bit, we know each other from your past life as a journalist at the ABC. I've watched your career, move into a political advisor with Jenny Macklin and then ultimately, you were preselected in the seat of Jagajaga. Your own journey has been a really interesting one. You've also been one of those MPs who've, as you've disclosed, had children as a sitting parliamentarian. It looks like a place from the outside that is a pretty hostile place for women. What do you say to other women who might be considering a career in politics and what some of those challenges are for women who want to enter politics more broadly?
THWAITES: Before I go to that, Tracee, I will note yes we did work together. And for me, that was when I was just starting out in my career as a very young journalist and I so appreciated the example you provided as a very fierce woman. And something that I've always gone back to and thought about and really appreciated is the guidance you provided me at that stage. But back to the question, when women say, is it hard in politics? Yes, it is still harder, I think, for women to be politics than it is for men, but a lot has changed. A lot is continuing to change. I gave one example there of how I think the parliamentary workplace has changed. Our Government, we are the first government in the history of Australia that is majority female. And that does make a difference and why it is worth it is because you get to do things like this week when I stood up in the House of Representatives and introduced a bill that will accelerate gender equality in Australian workplaces. And when you get reports like the one we've just had that says the gender pay gay is going down as a result of decisions the Government has made to support better pay for women who do really important, vital work that we should have recognised as really important and vital and paid accordingly before this moment. I do think it is that ability to have more and more women in the room to make sure that conversations are directed towards the things that are about women and make a difference in their lives.
HOST: It must be a very profound moment, I suspect, to be able to be in that position, introducing that kind of legislation and answering that question about why you go into politics. It's terrific to spend some time talking with you today, Kate Thwaites, thanks for making time for us.