Subjects: Garma, 50th anniversary of the Aboriginal Land Rights Act, Remote Jobs and Economic Development Program, Food Security, Low-Cost Essentials Subsidy Scheme, Remote Housing, Indigenous Rangers, Closing the Gap, Preschool Enrolments Target met, NT Child Protection Laws, Luke Gosling
MEL CLARKE, HOST: Malarndirri McCarthy is the Minister for Indigenous Australians and is at the Garma Festival. I spoke to her a short time ago.
Malarndirri McCarthy, thanks very much for joining us on Afternoon Briefing today.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Lovely to join you, Mel, all the way from Gulkula here in far North East Arnhem Land.
HOST: Right, for Garma Festival and coming at a really pivotal time and anniversary. 50 years since the Aboriginal Land Rights Act. It's been a really big moment to mark the progress that has been made in terms of rights and reconciliation. How do you reflect on the progress that's been made and what's still to come?
MINISTER: Well, it's certainly significant. Half a century of Traditional Owners across the Northern Territory determining and wanting to look at what the future of economic development, looking after their own Country, looks like. It's been a hard 50 years as well, Mel. 30 years of actually fighting in the courts, proving who they are as Traditional Owners. I'm a Yanyuwa Garrwa woman. My families were the first under the Aboriginal Land Rights Act to go for land in 1976-77. So, there's a lot of reflection for me personally, as much as professionally. And we now really can move forward with nearly 50% of the land mass here in the Northern Territory as Aboriginal land.
HOST: What do you think about the sense of momentum that we have at the moment? To dive straight into the politics, your counterpart, Julian Leeser, has also been at the Garma Festival today and he says that he thinks that progress has stalled under the Albanese Government since the referendum on a Voice to Parliament didn't get up. And he suggested that things are adrift in the government when it comes to Indigenous affairs policy. What's your response to his view?
MINISTER: Well, I certainly think it's great that Julian Leeser has come to Gulkula to join with the Yolngu and others, and to listen to people. What I'll certainly be saying to Julian Leeser is that his questions about ambition, I would like to say to him that, you've got families across remote and regional Australia who are very ambitious to have one of the 3,000 jobs, now to be 6,000 jobs across the regions. You've got food security for First Nations families and those who live in remote regions, where you see 50% of the food prices reduced as part of cost of living. That's really critical. We know we've had to balance that and look at that, given so many factors across the country and also what's happening in the Middle East, in terms of fuel. Building the houses, the families themselves can tell you what it means for them, whether it's out in their communities or homelands. So, there certainly hasn't been any slowing down in that regard. And I guess they're the things I'll be telling Julian Leeser, as well as many others.
HOST: Is there less prominence though, on the objectives that you're trying to progress? We had the Prime Minister himself front and centre during the referendum campaign, but his attention seems to be on other issues. There's certainly a lot on the plate of a Prime Minister, but is it a fair assessment from Julian Leeser that it doesn't seem to be a priority for the Prime Minister anymore?
MINISTER: Well, as Indigenous Australians Minister, I know firsthand the commitment that the Prime Minister gives to First Nations issues in this country. And he gives to me as his Cabinet Minister, with all of the policy areas that I am pursuing; whether it's ranger jobs and overseeing thousands of ranger jobs, in particular a thousand jobs for women across there, knowing that we've got to look at the gender gap. These sorts of things really do matter, not only to the Prime Minister, but the Cabinet. We're looking at economic development. I'm working with the Treasurer in terms of the First Nations Economic Partnership. We've said that's where we are working towards. I'd like to see what we can announce in February with Closing the Gap in terms of our approach to economic development, Mel. So, I certainly wouldn't agree with any of that.
HOST: I know that a key discussion point amongst many there in Arnhem Land today has been about the Northern Territory Government's changes to child protection laws. You and your Federal Government colleagues have made it very clear that you're not happy with the direction that the Northern Territory Parliament has made by passing these laws. Is the government willing to intervene in some ways? I know you've talked about using federal funding arrangements to try and persuade the Northern Territory Government to take a different path. Just how willing are you to use levers like that to try and enact a change here?
MINISTER: Well, I have enacted it here in the Northern Territory recently, with the Northern Territory Remote Aboriginal Investment, Mel. So, that is the first historically in any federal, state and territory funding relationship where through that agreement, I've ensured that First Nations organisations are at the table between both the Northern Territory Government and the Commonwealth Government to make sure those areas are covered. The Northern Territory Remote Area Investment is over $800 million, and it covers policing, families, education, health. And having a seat at the table and clearly input to decision making by First Nations peoples is critical.
HOST: When it comes to the child protection law changes though, made at a Territory Government level, do you have to accept that that is the law that's been put in place by the Northern Territory Government and despite your concerns, that's their right to make that law and voters will vote on that in the next Territory election?
MINISTER: Sure. Look, I get that the question has been put even to Tanya Plibersek about intervening into the Northern Territory, whether it's into legislation or many pieces of legislation. My colleague and myself have always said on the record that we understand that the Northern Territory has to make its own decisions. So, what I've done is ensure that the Northern Territory Government, whoever is in power, is also working with First Nations people. And by doing that through the NTRAI Agreement, it is now embedded in there as a very clear and concise principle. And if the First Nations organisations are not satisfied as well, then I will have a good look at where the particular funding is going to go to any areas of the Northern Territory Government.
HOST: But that assessment that you would do of funding that would be about the consultation with local Indigenous people, not about the passage of a law by the Northern Territory Government per se?
MINISTER: Well, I'd like to think that the Northern Territory Government knows that it has to work and treat First Nations organisations fairly and respectfully. Whatever pieces of legislation they're taking through, we've clearly seen that hasn't been the case in the last couple of years. This agreement is now signed. I'd be interested to see how the next 12 months goes.
HOST: You mentioned earlier the Closing the Gap targets and the work that's being done there. There's some good news earlier in the week around preschool enrolments, some positive progress there, but of course the vast majority of targets we're still a very long way from meeting. Is there a point where you reassess whether or not the Closing the Gap targets is the right mechanism or the right way to try and address disadvantage? Or do you think you need to stay the course with the Closing the Gap approach?
MINISTER: The fact that we have reached a target in Target 3 with preschool enrolments Mel, gives great heart to the fact that this is what can be achieved when governments actually genuinely work with First Nations people and organisations. The Aboriginal Community Controlled sector is a critical player in this and when they are genuinely empowered to be decision makers with governments of all persuasions and every jurisdiction, you will see major differences. And I am very much of that view, especially since we've seen Target 3 achieved.
HOST: So, in your view, this is still the right way forward? Again, your counterpart, Julian Leeser, says, look, there's a lot of issues in trying to collect the right data. We're trying to have annual assessments of progress when we don't always have annual data to assess it upon. Does that give you any cause for concern or the progress you've seen in the preschool enrolment is enough for you to be convinced this is the right way forward?
MINISTER: Well, it's curious, isn't it? Julian Leeser asks for more ambition, but when we do reach a target, he's also finding fault with that. What I would say to the opposition is get on board. These programs are working; they're making a difference. Be constructive, not destructive.
HOST: And just finally, of course, one of your Labor colleagues, Luke Gosling, is facing a court process at the moment, having faced two charges over assault in relation to an incident with the Northern Territory Administrator. Given in the past where we've seen issues around allegations being levelled against people in positions of power. We see this across politics, we see it across sport, other areas of public life. Often the person will stand aside from their formal capacity while that court process can play out. Why shouldn't that happen with Luke Gosling and his role as a Special Envoy in the Albanese Government?
MINISTER: There's no doubt this has been a really difficult time for Luke and his family and his staff, Mel. There is no doubt about that. Yesterday was a very tough day, very upsetting on many levels. But any conversations going forward must be between Luke and the Prime Minister. And I respect the fact that there is a legal process now in front of us and we will hear as we go through that legal process what actually is happening and has happened. And I think we should just leave it at that, really.
HOST: Malarndirri McCarthy, I really appreciate your time while you're in Arnhem Land. Thanks very much for speaking to us on Afternoon Briefing.
MINISTER: Thanks, Mel. My pleasure.