SARAH ABO, HOST: Well, Matt Canavan, Kevin Hogan, Bridget McKenzie and Michael McCormack are reportedly all considering a tilt at the Nationals leadership following the shock resignation of David Littleproud. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is one of those people, Nationals Senator Matt Canavan and Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy. Good morning to you both. So, Matty, am I talking with the new leader of the Nationals?
MATT CANAVAN, NATIONALS SENATOR: Well, that's not up to me, Sarah. It's up to my colleagues. I do want to say thanks to our former leader David Littleproud. You saw yesterday that he left everything out on the field. It's a tough game down here. But I do think it's tough times for Australians. That's what's more important and that's why I'm running because I think we need a changed approach. Very positive about our country and what we can achieve but we need to get back to focusing on Australia first. So, that's what I've always fought for and represented. I was thinking this morning though Sarah, that I think last time I ran for leader, I was on your show and I didn't win. So, I hope you don't jinx me twice.
HOST: Hey, it's a different host this time mate.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: We thought he’d be doing the numbers at the moment Sar. So, if the phone rings while we’re on air -
HOST: It's a different year.
MATT CANAVAN: Actually, I think it was with Karl though. It wasn’t with you. So, I'm hoping you're my good luck charm.
HOST: Maybe I am. Maybe I am. But, you know, you touched on David Littleproud there, obviously, you know, he said yesterday in that emotional press conference, which was very revealing, you know, and really touching, I think. He spoke about how he just doesn't have the energy for it, and that's going to require a lot of energy, especially as you're trying to combat the rise of One Nation. Is that what this is all about? I mean, how would the party do any differently under a different leadership? Because, you know, you spoke then about going back to Australian values. When did you ever stray from that?
MATT CANAVAN: Well, I think we have strayed from that Sarah, and I've been pretty critical sometimes of my own side on this program and many others. I think we lost our way. We've let the tyranny of focus groups for too long dictate what should happen here in Canberra and we can all see the results of that now under this -
HOST: Would you be Matt, I just want to ask you, would you be too polarising as a leader? Because you do have very, very strong views.
MATT CANAVAN: I think people kind of want that now, don't they? I mean, I think people have had enough of the pastel colours that are painted by, as I say, focus groups quite often get together and say this is what we should do. I've always been pretty upfront and, yes, sometimes that means some people resile a bit from what I say. But you know what you're getting with me. And I think what John Howard said was right 20 years ago, that you might not agree with everything I say, but you know where I stand. And right now, we need strong leadership for our country. Our real wages are back to 2011 levels. We can't fill up at a petrol station right now in regional areas. What the hell's going on with this government? They think everything's fine. I don't think everything's fine. I think things need to change and I've been saying that for a long time.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, that’s not true.
MATT CANAVAN: Well, you think things are going fine? You think things are fine Malarndirri?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, I can tell you, Matt, what isn't going well is the flooding in northern Australia. I've just been out at Katherine. If anything, we've been trying our best to assist families on the ground there. Daly River's been completely evacuated. There's over 600 people in shelters in Katherine, about 300 or 400 in Darwin. There's a boil water alert in a capital city in Australia, but there seems to be little coverage of that across the country.
HOST: Malarndirri, you're right to point out those issues that are facing the Northern Territory and certainly we're seeing flooding in Queensland as well, right. But the issue that we're facing right now -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Right across northern Australia.
HOST: Yeah. And what we're facing right across the country is this fuel situation, right. And the shortage that Matt touches on there. I mean, at what point will you as the government understand that this is an issue that is affecting Australians every single day and particularly our farmers who supply the food bowl of this nation and they are feeling it the worst. At what point is the government going to stop doubling down on this issue and say that there is nothing to look at here?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: We certainly are very aware of the concerns across the country. I know that Chris Bowen has met with the National Farmers Federation and other groups who have raised these concerns directly with him, Sarah. So, it's quite unfair to say that we're not listening and we're not aware. That's absolutely untrue. Even though that's a line that Matt and his colleagues like to push.
HOST: No, it's a line that's coming from farmers Malarndirri though.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: That is absolutely not true.
HOST: And on our show and others.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, if the National Farmers Federation has met directly with Chris Bowen, I think that’s the appropriate path to -
HOST: But that's a lobby group, that’s not the individual farmers themselves.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: But they represent individual farmers. And I would say to you -
HOST: So, the farmers who were talking to us -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: And anyone else who have got those concerns -
HOST: Are they just lying?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you've got direct contact with those farmers, you're able to pass that information on. This is something that's really important. It's not about playing games on national television, Sarah. It's not about inciting panic across the country. Be responsible in the way that you're dealing with it as well.
HOST: But that's why we're giving everyone a voice. You've got a voice. The farmers have got a voice. We're not the ones who are inciting the panic across the country. I mean, the ACCC is not even doing its job properly.
MATT CANAVAN: Well, can I -
HOST: Go on, Matt.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, you're not taking what the Minister is saying -
MATT CANAVAN: Can I give. Can I give. Well, Malarndirri -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: So, just because you don't like what he's saying doesn't mean that he's not out there doing that. I think that’s what is important here.
HOST: Go on, Matt.
MATT CANAVAN: I don't really care about Chris Bowen, Malarndirri. I'd like to give a farmer a voice on your show.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, I'm sure he probably feels the same way about you, Matt.
MATT CANAVAN: I spoke to one yesterday, Malarndirri, who is facing having to put down his livestock this week unless he gets fuel. Because if he doesn't have fuel, he can't mill the grain, can't feed his cattle. There's no way to transport them off the property. He can't let them starve to death. And so, if, as you say, you're listening and as the government keeps putting out, we've got the supplies, we've got the fuel. Why can't you get fuel to that farmer? I mean, I'd like to know. Why can't you get fuel to that person who’s facing having to put down his livestock -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, Matt, why can't you go to see Chris Bowen -
MATT CANAVAN: Did you support -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: And raise that directly for that farmer to the Minister -
MATT CANAVAN: We have been.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: And you come straight on national television to bag the government, to have a go when you as a Senator can actually go and do something about it.
MATT CANAVAN: We have been. We’ve been, all week, Malarndirri, I don't know if you've been asleep during Question Time. We've been raising individual stories all week.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, no. Incorrect again Matt.
MATT CANAVAN: And the answers from your Ministers. No, Malarndirri, the answers from your Minister has been to blame -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Go personal. The minute you go personal means that you’ve lost the argument.
MATT CANAVAN: Your Minister has been blaming right wing extremists. Right wing extremists.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: What happens here is that you haven’t done your job to go to the Minister -
MATT CANAVAN: Not dealing with the people who are suffering in our country.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: And in fact, every single Senator who receives these concerns -
MATT CANAVAN: It's always someone else's fault. It's always someone else's fault.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Can do that.
MATT CANAVAN: Not yours. No responsibility.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: You are in a position to do it, Matt Canavan.
HOST: Can I just point out that I haven’t said a word during this exchange. So, I don't know if this is a media issue, ok, I'm just going to put that out there, guys. I know that this is going to be a fierce debate that we have over the days to come. We have run out of time. But thank you both so much for joining us. Appreciate it.