MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here. I just want to acknowledge we're together on the lands of the Larrakia people, and pay my respects to Elders past, present and emerging. But also, importantly, acknowledge my colleague, friend, Senator Katy Gallagher, who joined us here today for some very constructive meetings that we've had with the Northern Territory Government this morning.
We had hoped to meet with the Chief Minister. The Chief Minister was unavailable, so we met with the Acting Chief Minister, Gerard Maley, on a number of issues that are impacting the federal funding relationship between the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory. It was a constructive meeting. My role as not only the Senator for the Northern Territory, nationally, I hold a role as Indigenous Australians Minister, responsible for the Closing the Gap agreement with my co-chair Donnella Mills on the Coalition of Peaks.
So, it was important to be able to talk to the Northern Territory Government about the National Agreement and about the Northern Territory Government's commitment to that Agreement in terms of Closing the Gap, in particular with First Nations people here in the Northern Territory and some of the decisions that are being made that are impacting, in quite a very difficult way, First Nations organisations and communities. So today was an important first step to be able to have a chance to talk together and see what we can do to really work much better between the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory. I'll just hand over to Senator Gallagher for a moment.
MINISTER FOR FINANCE KATY GALLAGHER: Thanks so much, Mal. It's great to be up north after a couple of busy weeks down south in Canberra. Look, it was a good meeting today. We had hoped to meet with the Chief Minister. We made that appointment some two weeks ago, and the reason behind that was we were certainly, from the Commonwealth's point of view, experiencing some concerns about how particular programs have been run out, the timeliness of them in relation to disaster relief and housing, and some concerns about the women's safety programs. So we've put all that on the table with the Deputy Chief Minister. We want to continue to seek a meeting with the Chief Minister. We think it's important that the leader of the Northern Territory Government engages at the highest level with the Commonwealth. It's an important relationship. We want to get it right, and we want to make sure it continues to deliver for the people of the Northern Territory. The first discussion was a good one, but we are hoping to have further discussions over the next little while.
MCCARTHY: Okay. Any questions?
JOURNALIST: Can I ask Katy Gallagher, what are some of the things that you think the NT Government isn't properly spending Commonwealth funds on?
GALLAGHER: So the first example I give you is in our disaster relief. So we're still waiting for some of the paperwork to be provided that would allow Commonwealth funds to flow under the Category D arrangements. Now, some of those disasters happened in November 2025, so it's been some 10 months, and we're still waiting for the paperwork. What that means is those communities are still waiting for Commonwealth funds to flow under those arrangements. Now we made some progress in the meeting on that front. The Northern Territory Government are committed to having the paperwork for various projects they want funded under that category into the Commonwealth by Christmas, but it has taken a long time to get here. So we were concerned about that. On housing, we have a remote housing agreement. In the first year of that agreement, the housing target was reached. In the subsequent two years, the target of completing houses hasn't been reached, and now we're having discussions with the Northern Territory Government where they would like to revise down the number of houses. We are concerned about that, so we need to continue to talk with them about that, and that's the issue that we've left on the table to have a meeting with the Chief Minister about.
JOURNALIST: How much could have been accessed through that disaster funding that hasn't been? Has that paperwork been submitted?
GALLAGHER: Well, that still to be finalised. I mean, the Northern Territory Government has to submit the business cases for that, and then, the letter from the Chief Minister. They have sought a certain amount of funding from the Commonwealth. They want us to meet 75 per cent of the cost of the various projects. That was the letter we got about 10 days ago, which is kind of moving in the right direction. But it'd be a substantial amount of money, and we're just concerned about the delays. I mean, in other jurisdictions, acknowledging that the Northern Territory is a small government with a small public service, and the Commonwealth is very sympathetic to that. But we really do think 10 months, eight months, six months - it's just taking too long to get that paperwork finalised and the money to flow.
JOURNALIST: The Territory gets extra money from the Commonwealth because of our high levels of social disadvantage, domestic violence feeding into crime. Do you feel that not rolling out these programs, like new housing for overcrowded communities and domestic violence programs, just feeds into those social disadvantage and crime problems not being properly addressed in a timely way?
GALLAGHER: Well, that's the concern the Commonwealth has. I mean, the money that we are investing is to reach the outcome that we want, which is to provide better services and better supports in housing, in particular in relation to overcrowding, in domestic, family and sexual violence, to make sure the service system is able to cope with the level of violence that exists right across the country. And so, when we're seeing delays or reductions in the Northern Territory's own expenditure, that concerns us.
And that was why we wanted to put it on the table. We wanted to come up to the Chief Minister and say, "Look, these are all of our concerns. It's across a number of portfolios.” Malarndirri obviously has responsibility for progressing Closing the Gap, but each individual minister in the Commonwealth, whether it be the Housing Minister, the Minister for Social Services, the Minister for Early Childhood Education, the Minister for Emergency Management, have all raised concerns with how the Northern Territory Government is engaging with the Commonwealth. We want to make sure that if there are problems at our end, we're dealing with them, but also to let the Northern Territory know that we are going to pursue this. We're going to continue to pursue it. We will continue to write to them. We will continue to come up here and try and make sure that that money is flowing to where it's needed, and that communication between the two governments is what's needed.
JOURNALIST: What levers could you use on the Northern Territory Government if you don't get a positive response to your treaties?
GALLAGHER: So the issue we raised and put on the table today, particularly in the area of family, sexual and domestic violence, is if we aren't going to be able to progress it with the Northern Territory Government, we will look to increase the amount of direct funding relationships we have with other organisations. Now, we do that in health already. Probably is the most developed area of government where we have those direct funding relationships. But in the future, if we are going to be frustrated or not see the money getting to where it's needed, that we would look to direct funds those organisations. Now, the Northern Territory Government put to us, well, that that's not ideal from their point of view because they question whether those organisations are delivering what they want. So part of the meeting today was really to put it all on the table and to work out how we work through this. But the Commonwealth is serious that we are not going to see our investments sit there and not get progressed. And you know, in housing we want the houses built. In domestic, family and sexual violence we want the service system supported. Malarndirri has been talking with them about YiSSA and all of the issues associated with that, and you know we need that relationship to work better. At the moment, we have concerns around it.
JOURNALIST: The Northern Territory Government has really kind of hit back accusing the Commonwealth of being too slow to spend the money on the 80 aged care places and not start building that Darwin facility. What do you say to that?
GALLAGHER: Yeah. So, look, I saw that story, and I think certainly from our point of view, we are ready to work with them again with the Northern Territory Government. There's probably a difference of opinion about what some of the barriers are, but we are absolutely committed to working with them on that. I think there again is some paperwork that needs to be submitted, and we will proceed at pace. Like that's another area which is only going to have increasing demand in the NT, like everywhere, in how we meet the needs of older Territorians. And again, our money is there, and we are wanting to work with the Northern Territory Government on it.
JOURNALIST: Are you concerned with how much money is being spent on ‘tough-on-crime’ initiatives here in the territory, and that potential effect that has on Closing the Gap targets?
GALLAGHER: Might let Mal answer that in general on the Closing the Gap targets, but we have put a lot of effort into justice reinvestment in the last term and this term. We acknowledge the Northern Territory Government, sovereign government, makes its own decisions. But certainly, from the Closing the Gap, targets aren't being met, and we are, you know, having raised with us, including by citizens of the Northern Territory concerns around the incarceration rates, particularly of First Nations Territorians.
MCCARTHY: Look, we we certainly raised the Justice Policy Partnership, which is part of one of the partnerships with the Closing the Gap Agreement. I certainly raised that this morning in regards to where that step is going here in the Northern Territory is overall in terms of nationally, we are very concerned in terms of justice outcomes.
The same with out of home care. What we see in the Northern Territory, which I am very pleased with, is on Groote Eylandt, for example, the justice reinvestment program that's working there, where we've seen a real drop because you've got the Anindilyakwa people involved in finding the solutions with working locally. What I've tried to do with not just the Northern Territory Government but with all governments is to look at the solutions and look at the programs that are results and try and emulate that, and we could do the same here in the Northern Territory.
JOURNALIST: Would you consider some type of funding restriction on the Northern Territory if those Closing the Gap outcomes continue to worsen, especially on things like incarceration?
MCCARTHY: Sure, funding restriction isn't really what we're looking at here. What we're wanting the Northern Territory to realise is that we are having a problem, now with the delivery of funding responsibilities, and not just in the portfolio areas that I have, but as Senator Gallagher has said, the issue with Minister Plibersek’s area, Minister McBain's area with disaster, we are seeing this across the board with a lot of the Commonwealth Ministers, so what we're doing here today is raising this directly with the Northern Territory Government, in the hope that we can really put on track the relationship between the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory.
JOURNALIST: Would you consider having more tied funding? For example, education funding is more tied funding. It's got to be spent on specific things, so we can't have you know the 80% input into the NT budget. Lots of it being used for things like new prisons, as opposed to more youth diversion programs.
MCCARTHY: Look, a lot of the feedback I'm getting, Jane, is that organisations don't feel like they're actually being included in the conversation. So, if you have expertise in a particular area, whether it's education, whether it's out in the communities with housing, whether it's the care of children, the organisations that are reaching out are saying that they have not got the involvement.
What we've said to the Northern Territory Government today is that we're hearing those concerns. We want to reach out and actually work out what can we do. You know, if I take, for example, the emergency situation here with the floods earlier this year, I had to convene a Federal Task Force here, just in the Northern Territory alone, so that organisations and local government communities were actually receiving the information directly from the Bureau of Meteorology, from the National Emergency Management Association, so that they could hear and be a part of the, constructively, be a part of the disaster planning. This is something that I've reached out to Commissioner Dole with, and I do appreciate that he sat down with a debrief on that, so that we could better prepare for the next wet season. How can we be more inclusive? How can we bring more people in terms of these organisations who want to be at the table, who want to assist with evacuations, looking after people, with translating? This is what we're trying to do: is actually say we can do better, and how can we do that?
JOURNALIST: Marlindirri, will you be traveling to Port Hedland given the child protection crisis that's going?
MCCARTHY: Thanks, Matt. Yes, I spoke with the minister yesterday after question time. I did have a briefing with the WA Government, wanting some reassurance from them as to what they were doing with regards to Port Hedland, but also more broadly in terms of families across Western Australia. What I've done is talked with our National Children's Commissioner for First Nations Children. That's why we established that Commission so that we can have oversight, not just in WA but also right across Australia, where there are concerns that are being raised, and Commissioner Hunter will be going to WA. I also have conversations with our Coalition of Peaks, who have the ACCHOs in Port Hedland. So we need to make sure that we have the National Commissioner there first, and I certainly want to keep an eye on this area plus others as we go forward.
JOURNALIST: The criticism of the Northern Territory Government's changes to child protection, where they stated specifically they want to ensure that safety was the top priority, is what we're seeing played out in Western Australia now not prove that the Northern Territory was right to put a stronger emphasis on safety when it comes to these child protection matters, particularly when it comes to Aboriginal kids.
MCCARTHY: Well, the question of safety has always been one that everyone has been concerned about. The Aboriginal organisations here, Matt said that from the get-go. SNAICC has always said that as their peak body in terms of the care and welfare of the children across the country. Safety isn't one that we've wrestled over and said who's better at it. It is a word that we all agree matters for all our children. What we've also said is that in terms of kinship care, make sure you resource that area so that you can provide the support for those families who are able to look after the children if their own mother or father can't do it. There are extended family members who don't get the support for kinship care, and they could. And this is what we've been asking through the Aboriginal Childcare Placement Principal.
JOURNALIST: Do you agree, Hilary Hannam the Chief Magistrate during the Royal Commission, made the point here in 2017 that child protection departments were taking a relativist approach when it came to Indigenous children and what constituted harm, and also that sort of a fear of creating a second stolen generation was preventing child protection departments from acting when they perhaps should have in some of these matters. Do you think? Do you do you agree with some of the people who are saying that that is what is playing out in this situation in Port Hedland?
MCCARTHY: Well, I say this firstly: do not be afraid of there being a second Stolen Generation. What you have to be focused on is the fact that every child deserves to be safe, and I think that's paramount. I don't think any of us disagree on that. What we're also asking, though, is that First Nations communities and organisations and families are resourced to be able to step in to assist when a child or children need to be removed, and I think that is the piece that keeps being dropped in every state and territory jurisdiction. At some point, there are some incredibly good examples where it's working, but there are others where it could be improved.
JOURNALIST: So, if you look at that case in the Australian today. If you look at the case that's being reported in the Australian Today, where the child was placed with the grandparents, and yet while that child is at school, the grandparents get a text message saying that child is being returned to their mother, who was someone who was battling drug addiction is that surely that that case does not show that that the system is not working because they were in the care of kin in that situation yet they're being taken away from the grandparents and sent to the mother who clearly has an issue. Is that not something that deserves a specific inquiry?
MCCARTHY: Well, it certainly is a point that I'm trying to put to every state and territory government in terms of the care of children, and it's the same that I'm doing with the West Australian Government. You must be able to resource those families, especially in the kinship sector, to be able to support a child. And in this particular case, which I'm not across, but I would say more broadly that every single government must look at what opportunities there are and how they're resourcing First Nations families to take on that kinship role.
JOURNALIST: Just on that, so the Australian is reporting around the table next week. Are you not going? Is it just the commissioner that's going to that?
MCCARTHY: At this point in time, we are certainly in discussions about a round table. It may be later next week or earlier in the week after. We obviously have to work out the logistics. But what I'm asking is for Commissioner Sue-Anne Hunter to get onto this immediately, which she is, and I do appreciate that. That's why Minister Plibersek established the Children's Commission for this purpose.
JOURNALIST: Just on YiSSA if that's okay, was there any communication with the Federal Government about the change plans this week to move YiSSA residents to Batchelor?
MCCARTHY: Any communication?
JOURNALIST: Yeah, was the Federal Government made aware of those plans?
MCCARTHY: Look, the first I heard of it, and I have said this, I believe, with the ABC earlier this week, I read it in the NT News.
JOURNALIST: Was there is there any concerns from that you've heard from YiSSA residents and that sort of thing about that move and the Federal Government stepped in?
MCCARTHY: Oh, people are devastated. There's no two ways about it. They have been since they've been told they have to move. I expressed today in my meeting with Mr Maley that I'm deeply disappointed in the way this has turned out. I do believe that there could have been a better outcome, and I do want to be kept informed as to how those residents at YiSSA move along from here in terms of any relocation. What are their plans, and what are the immediate plans to assist them for those who can't move that distance and do require renal dialysis?
JOURNALIST: Sorry, Malarndirri, I couldn't quite hear your answer before. Is that round table going to be in Perth or in Broome, and are you personally attended?
MCCARTHY: So I've I've certainly spoken with the National Children's Commissioner, who will be going to Perth and to Port Hedland. We will be working out the logistics as to when that happens.
JOURNALIST: We've seen this week that some very young children are accused of being involved in violent crimes in Darwin. Children filmed on CCTV holding a hotel and a fast-food place up at knife point does that suggest really that all levels of government need to do more to really tackle the drivers of crime that are just pulling in very young children into doing things like this, allegedly?
MCCARTHY: I think it's terrible that our kids are being taken into custody and not having an opportunity to find a way through and beyond that, and we know that once any child enters the justice system, their chances of staying out of it are pretty slim.
JOURNALIST: One more thing. I think you mentioned that the NT Government wanted to reduce the housing target. What are they seeking to reduce that too, and is that concerning?
GALLAGHER: So, under the agreement that was signed a few years ago, was to deliver 2,700 houses. Now, some of the concern that's been raised by the Northern Territory Government is that they need to allocate more of that money that was meant for housing into sort of land management, infrastructure, which would reduce it to, as I understand it, about 1800, give or take. But that's currently what we need to continue to talk to the Northern Territory government about. Obviously, that is not an outcome that we are that keen on. But the Chief Minister wasn't available today to raise that in depth with her. Housing, remote housing, how we deal with overcrowding has been central to some of the investments we've made, and we've made considerable, in the order of billions of dollars going into this area, and we need to make sure it delivers the housing that's needed.