Subjects: Closing the Gap
ISABELLA HIGGINS, HOST: 18 years ago, a national promise was made to reduce the number of Indigenous Australians dying early, not finishing school and living without employment, within a generation. Today, the Prime Minister will deliver the annual Closing the Gap report, a National Agreement that was updated five years ago to bring onboard state and territory governments and Indigenous leaders. Despite the new deadline being just five years away, four of the 19 targets are not on track to be met, for more on this, the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy.
Minister, good morning and thanks for joining us on AM.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning, Isabella. And good morning to your listeners.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: Now we'll take a look at some of the Closing the Gap targets that are not on track, but before we do that, can we take a look at where we are seeing improvements? Often we know this improvement is really led by the hard work of Indigenous communities and Indigenous leaders.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: We certainly can see success in terms of what we're trying to do across our lands and the seas, in terms of First Nations people, whether it's through Native Title or Aboriginal land rights, there is a very strong return in that, and that's why the jobs program has been important to roll out across remote and regional Australia. That was a huge challenge, and trying to elevate the areas of health where we've needed to do that through improving the standard of living, improving the ability to have a home, a roof over your head. So, very basic standards in that, and certainly that goes along with schooling, and that's really the push we've got to do this year is to ensure that our kids get to school, but not only get to school, complete it.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: Look, as you say, the government has dedicated hundreds of millions to a new remote jobs plan, dozens of millions for upgrades to community controlled health organisations, further subsidies for remote food stores, more money for crisis accommodation and Birthing on Country programs. I mean, that's a lot of investment. So, why is it that still, when we look at these Closing the Gap targets, we only see four of 19 that are on track after we've been trying to close these gaps now for close to 18 years.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: This particular agreement is actually only five years old, Isabella, and I think it's important for people to understand this agreement was signed in 2020, the National Agreement on Closing the Gap. It was actually done under Ken Wyatt as the then Minister for Indigenous Australians. So, we are halfway through that and we see this expiring in 2031. So, we have another five years to really get to the end of this and hopefully close that gap. And that is our aim, as the Prime Minister will say today in the House, we are not going to fail in this. We are absolutely determined at the Commonwealth level to do that.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: Probably important to say that Australia has been looking at a Closing the Gap plan since 2008 under Kevin Rudd. So, it has been going on for a long time, but as you say, this newer agreement signed about 10 years ago, only five years left to meet those targets and we know a lot of them are not on track. One of the toughest targets to close looks like one of those ones around justice, particularly youth incarceration levels.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: That’s right.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: Do you feel frustrated in your home state of the Northern Territory, when you see the government there winding back Royal Commission recommendations around ways to reduce Indigenous imprisonment rates, bringing back things like spithoods, restrainment chairs, and also reducing the age of criminal responsibility, things that we know put more Indigenous kids into prison?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: There are certainly many, many moments of frustration. There is no doubt about that. Not just with the Northern Territory, there are other jurisdictions that we continually need to work with, but I have to say I have reached out continuously with the Indigenous Affairs Ministers of each jurisdiction and we do work reasonably well to try and work on these areas. But the Northern Territory specifically, I've reached out directly to the Chief Minister. I have raised directly the concerns around the incarceration rates, but also the deaths in custody that we've had in the last 12 months, in the Northern Territory in particular. So, these are ongoing conversations that I have. I do push for that change, but it requires a whole of government approach, in particular from each state and territory jurisdiction.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: I mean, is it time that the Commonwealth puts more pressure on states like the Northern Territory and just says this is not good enough?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, that is the case. One of the areas that I am looking at and I have spoken with my colleagues about, and that's Commonwealth colleagues, is about our relationships in federal funding. We have levers that we can pull and I know that through the Northern Territory Remote Aboriginal Investment, the NTRAI, that is certainly an agreement between the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory where I have pushed for those levers to be looked at.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: There's certainly criticism from Indigenous leaders that sometimes it feels like the states are just not pulling their weight. With only five years left to meet these targets by 2031, what can actually change?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: A lot of it is about a determination and a willingness. We have to be willing to work together. I've done that in the Parliament, in moving across every sector, whether it's the Liberals or the Nationals or the Greens or even One Nation and the crossbench. I've urged them to work with me. I have regular meetings with them to assist me in trying to close the gap. Not just in my own caucus, but across the Parliament.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: And just to make it really clear, you do feel like that there is a failure here of states to take this seriously?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: No, I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that there are absolute challenges. I'm working directly with the Indigenous Affairs Ministers of each state and territory, and I appreciate that. What we have to do is actually be more willing to look at the legislative framework in each state and territory jurisdiction, for example, around incarceration, around reducing that. Let's look at the justice reinvestment that the Commonwealth is providing in places like Groote Eylandt, for example, where the local Anindilyakwa people are making sure that none of their young people are in the jails in Darwin. Why? Because they have the solutions to assist their people to stay out of prison and do the right thing.
ISABELLA HIGGINS: Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, thanks for your time this morning on AM.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Thank you Isabella.