Subjects: One Nation Senators turning their backs on an Acknowledgement of Country in the Senate, Welcome to Country, Federal Court decision, Northern Territory Coroner findings, truth telling.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Minister, welcome to the programme.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Thank you, Patricia. Good to be here in person.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: It is exciting to be in the Parliament actually, to see it all happen. You've just spoken about One Nation's decision to all turn their backs on the Welcome to Country that was being delivered in the Senate, but you didn't censure One Nation or do anything beyond. It was just a statement from the government. Why did you decide to go down that road?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: It was important for our side of politics, really, to remind the Senate of the importance of respect and that we do all have differing views. We're obviously voted in because of those views. And we have an opportunity and a voice in the Senate as opposed to millions of other Australians who don't. And what I was calling on, especially to the new Senators of the One Nation team, is remember that you represent millions of Australians and that includes First Nations people, and your behaviour in here is unacceptable. It's rude, it's disrespectful and that's not how the Senate works.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Liberals have also condemned One Nation turning their backs. But Senator Nampijinpa Price gave a pretty spirited speech in the Senate which I watched, which opposed Welcome to Country ceremonies entirely, and she was backed up, really, by Michaelia Cash. That seems like a different position to me to what I've heard from Sussan Ley. What did you make of the arguments being put?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: It was interesting because Sussan Ley sat next to Aunty Violet with the opening of the Parliament and with the Prime Minister and wanted to reset the direction for the Coalition. And this afternoon it was a surprise to hear the outburst in some respects from Senator Cash, because I had thought we were talking largely about the behaviour in the Senate and that was initially what it was about. And Senator Price, to her credit, acknowledged that element of it.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: She did talk about the turning of the back being disrespectful.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Absolutely. So, I expect that people will bring their own personal opinions and views into it, but it really was about the conduct of the Senate and Senators, and it was important that we put on the record that all Senators in there are there to represent Australians and to do so with dignity and respect.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, the idea of Welcome to Country ceremonies, some people thought it was a settled issue, but clearly there is still. We've started this new Parliament, the first week of the new Parliament and we're having a debate about Welcome to Country ceremonies.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: I don't think it will ever be settled because there will always be differing opinions. What was important was to remind Senators that we have a duty to the Senate to uphold, as Senator Wong said this week, to uphold democracy and the institutions of democracy in this country. And if we as Senators don't do it, then why are we there?
PATRICIA KARVELAS: A couple of other issues in your portfolio. The Torres Strait climate decision. We've now had this decision by the UN's highest court that countries that don't act to prevent climate change are breaching international law, and that they, we might even have to pay reparations in some form at a kind of bigger level to countries in the region. The Torres Strait Islander people who took that to court in Australia in a separate case were not successful. Do you understand their disappointment?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Oh, absolutely. Totally understand their disappointment. This case was brought on prior to us coming to government, and we understood that there was a legal process in train and no doubt the outcome was incredibly disappointing for them. But what we've also been doing in the time that certainly I've been Minister is contact the Queensland Government to support me and join with the Commonwealth to build those seawalls that we need. Now, I've heard concerns around whether the seawalls will be enough, and I know that when we look at the changes in the climate, that there'll always be those questions, but it's really difficult also Patricia, when you have, in this first week of Parliament, the Coalition wanting to get rid of net zero in terms of the Nationals. So, on the one hand, you have the Torres Strait Islands concerned about the rising sea levels and wanting to see international action, and yet through, what I understand is Barnaby Joyce's bill, is to get rid of net zero and so take no concern about what's happening to the climate.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: I want to move to the Coroner's report into Kumanjayi Walker's death and the way that the police handled it. And it was a pretty comprehensive report, many recommendations. It sits now with the Northern Territory Government. They haven't said they're going to back all the recommendations. They've noted, of course, that it's been delivered and said they will. Because it's a Territory and the Commonwealth does have enormous power. You actually have an enormous amount of power when it comes here, because it's not a state, as you know. Are you willing to flex that political muscle if the Territory doesn't get serious and respond to these recommendations?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: I'm ready to do what's very responsible to do, and that is to make sure that we all try and work together on this. It's what I did by having the Joint Council in the Northern Territory. I think that's the last time I spoke to you was when Indigenous Affairs Ministers and the Coalition of Peaks came to Darwin. And since then, and since I've spoken with you, I've been to the Alice Springs corrections, to Darwin corrections to talk to the prisoners, to talk to the staff there, to listen, to look at what is this concern I'm hearing about the overcrowding. The fact that the Northern Territory Police Association, who I've also met with, have talked about the incredible stress and strain that's not only on their officers, but also on those watch houses in the Northern Territory, in particular Palmerston. And I've also met with the Acting Police Commissioner and Leanne Liddle to get a briefing directly from them as to how they are going to progress through with the Coroner's recommendations. So, you're right, Patricia, we do wield a lot of power from the Commonwealth, but it has to be used responsibly.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Ok, so you want to use it responsibly. So, what's your message to Lia Finocchiaro and the Northern Territory Government about responding to this report, which makes a number of recommendations to deal with systemic racism in the police force?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, I'd say the same to the Chief Minister, to act responsibly as well, in terms of her relationships with the First Nations communities and organisations in the Northern Territory -
PATRICIA KARVELAS: And if they don’t, will there be consequences?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, I'm still in another week of Parliament. I'm heading back to the Northern Territory this weekend. It is a public holiday in Darwin with the Darwin Show. But I'd certainly like to have that conversation with the Chief Minister and I have said that publicly before and this is something I'd like to do, certainly, once Parliament's over.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Ok. Is the Chief Minister showing an interest in having a conversation about taking these recommendations seriously?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, again, anyone could read into whatever's being said by the Chief Minister in the media. My job is to actually speak directly with her and that's what I intend to do.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you have confidence that they will take this report seriously?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, what I've read in the media is that the comments have been questionable and that is concerning. But again, these are conversations I'd like to have directly with her.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: OK, so you want to put it to her, you want to do it responsibly. But I'm going to check again.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Sure.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: If you can't get an outcome here, are you prepared to leverage the Commonwealth's power?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, every state and territory has a Commonwealth relationship and of course I will look at every avenue.
PATRICIA KARVELAS. So, it is on the table to look at the funding arrangements?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Our relationships matter and that's why being able to speak to each other in a responsible and courteous manner, to try and get direct outcomes for the betterment of all people, matters.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just finally, last time we talked, we talked about treaty truth. You said that it's time to have a conversation, particularly about truth telling, which has been talked about a lot. You said the Black Caucus had to meet. Has it met?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: We've established the First Nations Caucus, and I'm hopeful that it will meet officially next week. So, I can let you know once that happens.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Great. Can you come on after the first meeting?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Oh, well, I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. So, you've got me on the public record now, and I'm always happy to come onto your show Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: You are. Senator, thank you.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Thank you.