Subjects: Daniel Andrews, China Parade, Protests, Camp Sovereignty, AFL.
SARAH ABO, HOST: Daniel Andrews is this morning under fire for posing alongside Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin at China's Victory Day parade. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy and Nine sports presenter Tom Rehn. Lovely to see you both this morning. Malarndirri, that photo is a terrible look, isn't it?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Well, as we've said, former politicians can do what they wish. They are private individuals. Certainly, I know there's much commentary across the country in regards to that photo Sarah but at the end of the day, it was a decision that Dan Andrews wanted to make.
SARAH ABO: Malarndirri, you call him a private citizen, but he's a private citizen who acts as an advisor to the PM and providing strategy during an election campaign. He's not your average private citizen.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: But he still is a private citizen in terms of making his own decisions.
SARAH ABO: So, you're OK with him going over there?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it's up to Dan Andrews actually, Sarah. So, if he wishes to go over there, it's part of his work.
SARAH ABO: Hang on a minute, Malarndirri. He's posing alongside a group of dictators and oppressors, which I think Bob Carr actually referred to them as oppressors and aggressors and he opted to sit out the Soviet style parade, quote unquote.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Sure, and again, Bob Carr is a private citizen who makes his own decisions. We also have millions of Chinese Australians in Australia as well, Sarah, who would be looking to their former country, I'm sure, and have different views as well. We are mindful that this was a decision by Dan Andrews and people can say what they wish.
SARAH ABO: So, you have no problem with it, just on the record?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it is Dan Andrews decision.
SARAH ABO: But do you have a problem with it Malarndirri? As the government. I mean, he didn't even seek any consultation before leaving. He is alongside dictators. Obviously, the Ukrainian community in Australia is also offended heavily by him being seen there alongside Vladimir Putin. We've got Kim Jong Un, you've got the Iranian leader there, you've got others that Australia has sanctions on, including from Myanmar. That's all cool? Nothing to see here? He's a private citizen. He can just do that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: He's a private citizen, Sarah, and it's a decision that he's made.
SARAH ABO: Wow. Ok. All right, Tom, what's your read on it?
TOM REHN: Our optics were poor, weren't they? I agree with you. I think, you know, he's a private citizen. Malarndirri makes that point, but I think given what happened during COVID, the fact that he's still got close ties with the Labor Party and also the figure that he is just looked appalling. It doesn't pass the pub test and I think it was just a really bad look, optics wise. And for someone who's such a seasoned politician, I would have thought he would know better. It's naive at best and it's really poor judgement and offensive at worst, I think, Sarah.
SARAH ABO: I think also what it points out, Tom and Malarndirri, is that the Premier, the former Premier, just actually doesn't care. He never has cared, never as Premier and neither now as a high-flying consultant. And the trouble as well, Malarndirri, is he was in a photo with other leaders, but he’s not a leader. So, how did he end up in that photo?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, again, that's a question that really needs to go to Dan Andrews in terms of the decisions that he's made and the relationships that he has. Can I remind your viewers though, Sarah, that world leaders, and we've seen world leaders, have to interact at different points in time. And whilst this is a personal decision of -
SARAH ABO: This is very different to the Prime Minister visiting China.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: - whilst this is a personal decision of Dan Andrews, it still remains that he is making this decision as a private citizen.
SARAH ABO: Ok, well, let's look at the parade itself then. Are you intimidated by that show of force? Some of those missiles that were paraded have frightening range, including the ability to reach us, Europe, the US. Are you worried?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, we obviously have to have a good look at what's happening, not just to our north, but around the world. And we're always conscious of that. And it's why our Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, does what she does and does it well in terms of having those relationships, whether they're in China, whether they're in Europe, whether they're in the US. It is our job to be able to constantly interact. We can't tell another country what to do and how to do it or how to celebrate.
SARAH ABO: Tom, do you think this impacts our belief that the leaders of this country, whether they be current or former, have Australia's best interests at heart?
TOM REHN: Yeah, I mean, this certainly probably does shake a little bit of that belief. I mean, like I said, it's a poor look. It doesn't look great. I think we all know that China is so careful and strategic with its planning. So, something like this, it doesn't look like it would happen by mistake. I think that China would probably carefully manipulate, prepare and I think it's just another reminder of how impactful and how strong the Chinese are.
SARAH ABO: And he's a willing participant. All right, let's move on. Well, Indigenous groups and Jewish leaders are calling on the Australian Government to treat neo-Nazis as terrorists. So, Malarndirri, considering what we saw on the weekend, those select few, if you want to call them that, proudly declaring that they're racists and neo-Nazis, as well as that brazen attack on Camp Sovereignty, would you back a call to make them terrorists, as seen by this government?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, firstly, I'd like to say this, Sarah. That attack that occurred was reprehensible. It was absolutely appalling. First Nations people were looking after and are looking after the sacred bones of ancestors at that particular site. It is a sacred ground, and it was reprehensible what took place there. And how frightening was that. My phone just went crazy on Sunday night. This week, my office has been inundated by Australians who are fearful of what they saw, who are angry. And of course, we need to make sure that these particular groups, whether they're neo-Nazis or anyone else, this kind of hate in this country must not be tolerated and must stop.
SARAH ABO: It was absolutely disgraceful, Malarndirri, as you said there, you would have heard from so many who were disrupted and upset by it. Tom, I mean, it's an understatement to say it ruins the social cohesion of this country, isn't it?
TOM REHN: No question. I mean, we work in the fourth estate. There's a really fine line, isn't there, Sarah and Malarndirri, between free speech and hate speech. And I think this one absolutely crosses over the line. Now, we've seen instances where minor examples escalate into something far bigger in Europe and in the US. Thankfully, we live in Australia but this is how it starts, when something, that appears to be fairly small can escalate into a massive problem. And when you see this hate directed towards people, frankly, it scares me and I don't think I'm alone. I think it scares a lot of people. I don't like it. And I think whatever we can do to stamp it out, let's nip it in the bud as best we can right now before it becomes a major issue.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Can I just add, Sarah, that it's more than about the hate speech, though. It's the act of violence that it precedes and we saw that. And that is what was really sinister about all of this.
SARAH ABO: No, you're not wrong. Look, just finally, just to lighten the mood a little bit. Tom, it looks a little bit gloomy though, I have to say over in Adelaide, are they the thunderous clouds building over Adelaide Oval as they prepare to lose to the Pies?
TOM REHN: Now Malarndirri, I didn't know I was in for this this morning. I didn't know I was going to cop it from Sarah. Her pies are coming. We've got to take it. First final in eight years for the Crows. Bring it on, Sarah. In 12 hours time. We cannot wait. I think your boys are going to be a little bit disappointed tonight. We'll wait and see.
SARAH ABO: I won't be watching, so I won't know until the morning. Thank you both so much for joining me this morning, guys. Appreciate it.