Subjects: Australian Embassy in Tehran, Deaths in Custody
SALLY SARA, HOST: Indigenous deaths in custody will be in the spotlight at the Joint Council for Closing the Gap in Darwin today. It comes as the Australian Human Rights Commission says 12 Aboriginal people have died in custody so far this year. Meanwhile, there are increasing calls for an independent inquiry into the death of Kumanjayi White in the Northern Territory last month. Joining me now is Malarndirri McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians and a Senator for the Northern Territory. Minister, welcome back to Radio National.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning, Sally and good morning to your listeners.
SALLY SARA: Firstly, on a separate issue, the Federal Government has directed that all officials from the Australian Embassy in Tehran depart. What's the government's message to stranded Australians in the region right now?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, certainly to all those still in the region, the Australian Government is requesting that they do ensure that they identify with our Australian officials over there so that we are aware of who's there and how many. And I know that Senator Penny Wong's office and her department are alerting all Australians who might be travelling in that region, but as well as Australians here in Australia who have family over there.
SALLY SARA: Turning to today's meeting of the Joint Council on Closing the Gap, which you'll be attending, how do you reflect on the past couple of weeks in the NT which have seen two Indigenous men die in custody, including Kumanjayi White?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, absolutely abhorrent, Sally. No one should go to a supermarket and think that they'll never return home. No one should try and board a plane and think they'll never ever live again. These are two incredibly difficult episodes for those families, they are still trying to come to terms with it. So is the broader Northern Territory and Australian community.
SALLY SARA: Your Labor Party colleague and member for Lingiari, Marion Scrymgour, says the Federal Government needs to show leadership regarding Aboriginal deaths in custody. Do you agree the government needs to be bolder in pushing for reform and more broadly for justice for First Nations Australians.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Marion Scrymgour is absolutely correct. Not just the Commonwealth but all states and territories need to see that this practice that we have occurring across the country, certainly with First Nations people must stop. The gathering today of First Nations Indigenous Affairs Ministers and also the Coalition of Peaks Sally, is testament to the fact that this is an incredibly important issue and Australians need to see action and this is what we're doing.
SALLY SARA: Will you support Marion Scrymgour's push for an audit into the recommendations from the 1991 Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, some of which are still yet to be implemented?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Marion's made a number of suggestions but so too Sally has the Human Rights Commissioner. There have certainly been letters from around the country as to other propositions that both the Commonwealth and state and territory jurisdictions can look at. What I can say to you and to your listeners is that we are looking at all of those options.
SALLY SARA: Yesterday we spoke to Adjunct Professor Scott Wilson who's acting convener for the Coalition of Peaks which co-chairs the Joint Council. This is what he had to say about the prevalence of hanging points in prisons.
When you consider that, you know, 30 odd years ago that was one of the key recommendations of the Royal Commission into deaths in custody, to still have over 20 state prisons across the country still having hanging points where something like 60 people, roughly 60 people have hung themselves. It's just distressing.
SALLY SARA: This is a very practical but deadly issue. Can you guarantee that those hanging points will be dealt with by the end of the year?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: What I can guarantee is that in my conversations with the federal Attorney-General, these are matters that Michelle Rowland is taking onboard quite seriously as a new Minister and new AG. I know that this is also a discussion that she will have with fellow Attorneys-General. I certainly have raised it directly with my colleagues. We are very serious, not just about this one issue of hanging points, Sally, we do not want to see further deaths in custody.
SALLY SARA: On this particular practical issue though. This is something that's been going on for decades. If the government can't fix this and sort it out by the end of the year. If not, why not?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, as I've said to you in my previous response that I can guarantee we will be working on this right across the board with states and territories.
SALLY SARA: So, you'll be working on it, but it's unlikely to be resolved by the end of the year. Would that be a fair understanding?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, Sally, what we need to ensure is that states and territories also take full responsibility here with the areas that they have jurisdiction over. And that has to be what we can do in the next month. We've got Parliament, we've got the opening of Parliament and the swearing in of all members in four weeks time and then I know that the Attorneys-General will meet in August.
SALLY SARA: What do you make of the Northern Territory Chief Minister Lia Finocchiaro's criticism that Federal Labor MPs are politicising the death of Kumanjayi White and quote, have little respect for Northern Territory police?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, what I would say is this. At a moment when compassion is needed, when tolerance is needed, and when further information and discussion is required, reaching out to families is required, in the absence of that, I spoke up. I spoke up with both the Chief Minister, I rang the Chief Minister, I rang the Acting Commissioner of Police to express my deep concerns about what had occurred in the supermarket in Alice Springs and also the fact that the coronial inquiry was due to come down into Mr Walker's case in Yuendumu. Both of these young men are from Yuendumu and their families have been compounded by incredible grief and suffering. What I called for was an understanding that this had to be dealt with very carefully and to reach out, to say that the trust in police was irreparably damaged, but also to say that the police involved, who'd also reached out to me, Sally, were very concerned as well of the tension amongst everyone. And I think that was the right thing to do in terms of reaching out to the leader of the Northern Territory, the Chief Minister. And I believe her comments do not reflect accurately the conversations we've had.
SALLY SARA: Are you angry about that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Not at all. What I'm angry about is that we've lost two men, a young man in the stores in Alice Springs and a senior elder from Wadeye, one of the leading educational transformers who was with the Catholic school in Wadeye, who was a first Indigenous principal or close to. And it's an absolute tragedy that we've lost these two men.
SALLY SARA: Malarndirri McCarthy, Minister for Indigenous Australians and Senator for the Northern Territory. Thank you for your time this morning.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Thank you, Sally.