Subjects: Attack on Camp Sovereignty, Jacinta Price comments, Closing the Gap.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: The Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, made a statement in the Senate today. She condemned the neo-Nazis who attacked a sacred Indigenous site in Melbourne during the anti-immigration rally in the city on Sunday. And I spoke to her a short time ago.
Minister, welcome to the programme.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good to be with you, Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: After the attack on Camp Sovereignty, some Indigenous groups are calling for neo-Nazis to be treated as domestic terrorists. Should they be?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: I certainly understand the calls by certain groups across the country. When I got the call late on Sunday night about what had happened at Camp Sovereignty, I was absolutely appalled. This week has shown, even in the Senate, just how emotional the weekend has been, certainly for those who were at Camp Sovereignty and also those who were deeply hurt, both physically and mentally, Patricia. So, what's happening now is that there have been charges laid. We know that a court case will be underway, I understand tomorrow. So, I'm being very careful with what I say because the last thing I want to do is give any advantage to those who may be at the centre of this.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: OK. But what happened really has alarmed many people -
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Absolutely.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Senator Lydia Thorpe told me a couple of days ago it took too long for police to act and in fact, there did appear to be a delay when these people had, there was vision of them, we could see who they were. Clearly the response from the Indigenous community was one of extreme fear and you can understand that, this is pretty terrifying.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Absolutely.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you think there needs to be a look at the way that policing deals with these issues?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, Senator Thorpe would know, given she's got very close relationships. It's her uncle, Robbie Thorpe, who's at Camp Sovereignty and thanks to Senator Thorpe, I certainly had a discussion with her and also spoke to Uncle Robbie as well. I am very mindful of these concerns that are being raised. I immediately sought from the Victorian Government an understanding of what was going on on Monday. This was before the charges were laid Patricia and I certainly emphasised the importance for the First Nations community in Victoria, in particular there at Camp Sovereignty, to be well informed and for this to occur as soon as it could and for information to come out. Because the calls I was getting and continue to get, whether it's in social media, whether it's to my office or just personal calls, is people are afraid. People are angry but they're more fearful. And we've got to be mindful that that is still the feeling out there.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What do you make of your former counterpart, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price’s comments regarding our migration programme? She walked back the comments, but now she's again said she doesn't apologise for them. Dave Sharma says he's going to stick to the bit that was the apology. That's what he wants to lean in on. But clearly many members of the Indian community are pretty concerned.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, it certainly hasn't been helpful for the last 24 hours. I understand it took place here on your programme and in terms of representing elements of the Northern Territory or all of the Northern Territory, I should say, we know that there is a large Indian community in the Northern Territory, but right across Australia. I think what's important here, though, Patricia, is that for every politician, and myself included, we have to be mindful that what we say actually does matter and it does resonate and we can either be a part of calming and de-escalating a situation or we do the reverse.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, in terms of de-escalating, what does that look like?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, it certainly means being conscious of the language we use, whether it's in the Senate or here now, talking to you and other media outlets. This incident, this march on Sunday created all sorts of outcomes and in particular for the First Nations community, one that has unsettled many First Nations people and just ordinary Australians right across the country.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Look, just on some other issues in your portfolio, the Northern Territory Government has defended its failure to meet Closing the Gap targets as a measure to keep the community safe. They say our government acknowledges the Closing the Gap targets, but this cannot come at the expense of community safety. So, given that we've talked before about consequences, there's a big funding agreement with the Territory. Are you going to explore those options in terms of funding and actually pushing them to deliver on their agreements? I mean, they are signatories to the Closing the Gap statement.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, I just asked a question this afternoon in the Senate on that. We do have the powers as a Commonwealth in terms of the Northern Territory and the ACT to intervene. We saw that in 2007 when former Prime Minister John Howard intervened on the Northern Territory. But my response to that, Patricia, and I think I may have said this to you before, that even though we have great power and we do have extraordinary power. We have to use it wisely. We have to be responsible in our response, whether it's the Northern Territory Government or any other government. My approach always is to try and work with individuals and with governments. I have met with the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory and expressed my views directly to her. The contents of that conversation will remain private, but she is very aware of the position I've taken on this.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: OK, you say private, but she's aware of your position. Is there a timeframe, Minister? What have you said?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: What I've said to the Chief Minister is really at the end of that, Patricia, was to actually agree to meet regularly. I have raised the fact, not just with the Chief Minister, but also with the Attorney-General of the Northern Territory and of course with Standing Council of Attorneys-General when they met in Sydney recently with the federal Attorney-General, that our government is taking the Closing the Gap targets very seriously around incarceration rates of First Nations people and the youth that are being incarcerated at phenomenal rates. And we will not let up. We are going to keep working on this and I am calling on each of the states and territories to do what they said they would do.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us, Minister.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Thank you.