GREG JENNETT: Malarndirri McCarthy is the Minister for Indigenous Australians, and she joins us in the studio right now. Senator, welcome back to the program, I'm pleased to say, our first time since your elevation, so congratulations.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Thank you, Greg. Lovely to be here.
JENNETT: Why don't we start with the very serious matter we just introduced there – domestic and family violence. Micaela Cronin delivered her Annual Report yesterday, the first of what will be a very regular instalment updating her work. The Indigenous component of her anti‑violence plan, though, isn't due until June of next year. That doesn't seem to put it at the front of the queue for priorities. Do you understand why that is? Would you prefer that it came sooner?
McCARTHY: Well, I certainly thank the Commissioner for her report, and I acknowledge that it's not only First Nations people, Greg, but family and domestic violence impacts right across Australia for most Australians, sadly. What I will say is this: that in terms of the Albanese Government, we are certainly working very closely with Amanda Rishworth, in this instance, on a First Nations plan in terms of the battle against family and domestic violence. But also recently, just last week, the Senate tabled its report into murdered and missing First Nations women. So, we know that the urgency is certainly there, the attention is certainly there. In terms of that report, I said today, even in the Senate, that we will definitely give it complete focus because we know we have to do as much as we can in the space of support for family and domestic violence across the country.
JENNETT: That latter reference being to last week's Senate report, do you mean?
McCARTHY: That's correct, yes.
JENNETT: Where there were also recommendations about a national data set, better linkages, I suppose, between state, territory and federal policing and law enforcement –
McCARTHY: Absolutely.
JENNETT: -- authorities.
MCCARTHY: Yes.
JENNETT: Is the Government on board for that?
McCARTHY: Well, clearly, we have some time now to respond to it, Greg, and a lot of this will require financial support as well in terms of political will. And this will be an important step for me in my role as Indigenous Affairs Minister to be able to work with the Attorney‑General, Mark Dreyfus, and many of my colleagues to try and see what we can do. I mean, I know it sounds very dull but the ERC is critical throughout this, in terms of the MYEFO, to see what we can do to support the recommendations that have come through in that Senate report.
JENNETT: What's the suggestion there, that these are rather costly initiatives to adopt?
McCARTHY: Look, it's not just around our First Nations murdered and missing womens report. It's important to recognise that legal services across the country need as much support as they can. We saw the Community Legal Services here in the Parliament this week needing support for their funding. So, we recognise that in the legal sector that there are calls for that. The NLAP Agreement is a critical one that I know that Mark Dreyfus is working very diligently on, and we hope to see that come through in terms of the next six months, yeah.
JENNETT: Yes. I think we might have discussed before, in another capacity, the outstanding work on legal services.
McCARTHY: Yes.
JENNETT: Can I take you, though, to the other significant piece of national legislation that did pass today and probably one of the most significant of the week. That's the NDIS shake‑up, Malarndirri McCarthy. I woke to hear on the radio this morning some Indigenous groups kind of asking that their people and their communities not be worse off through the changes that lie ahead ‑ that is, the move towards foundational supports off the scheme, outside of the scheme. Can you guarantee that that won't be the case, they won't be worse off?
McCARTHY: Well, this is something that Bill Shorten has worked very closely with, and I know that getting this legislation through has been absolutely critical to him and to his department. In terms of First Nations people, if I can reflect on what's going on in the Northern Territory, I know that we need to ensure that First Nations people in the disability sector, and their needs, are being met. When I think of Central Australia, for example, in the health sector, we've got the highest rates of amputations in Central Australia alone. So, it is important that some of these changes that had to take place do give support in particular to the First Nations sector.
JENNETT: How will they do that?
McCARTHY: Well, they need to do that by ensuring that the First Nations people are actually at the table to begin with, Greg. One of the things that I've said in coming into this role is the Closing the Gap figures ‑ the health, disability, all of that that comes through the Closing the Gap National Agreement ‑ needs to be met. And working with the Coalition of Peaks ‑ Pat Turner, who's the head of that ‑ there are over 800 members involved in that and we have to ensure that they are very much a part of the co‑design of the reaching out to First Nations people.
JENNETT: I guess if you've got a severe physical disability ‑ and you've mentioned amputations ‑ it is reasonable to imagine that the scheme will largely go on and the plans will be assessed much as they are now. Then there's that other category of typically children, sometimes with conditions like autism, who seem to be the target of the Bonyhady Review to set up foundational supports. Now, that's going to be difficult, if not impossible, isn't it, in some of the more remote areas? Alice being but one example.
McCARTHY: What I really want to make clear here is that the work of the Aboriginal community sector has to be always at the forefront of any of these pieces of legislation, in particular around NDIS. If we talk about health, we have the Aboriginal Medical Services across the country, we have them certainly across remote and regional Australia. And unless they are at the table, then we are going to see further problems. And I will certainly, in my role, be reaching out to them to make sure that they are very much a part of what comes through with this NDIS legislation.
JENNETT: Alright, we'll track that through with you over time, I'm sure we’ll have many subsequent conversations. A quick one ‑ Linda Burney, your predecessor, was given a fond farewell in the House yesterday. You were there, I saw you. The baton has been passed on, she said, and went on to elaborate that we don't have to choose ‑ in Linda Burney's view ‑ between practical and symbolic reconciliation. Now, reflecting on that, it seems that you have, and have had since October last year, a very strong emphasis on practical measures. Does that mean that constitutional reconciliation is now only symbolic? Has it been relegated?
McCARTHY: Oh, not at all, Greg. I think, if anything, one of the lessons that have been learned on both sides is the strength and resilience of First Nations people in this country. We don't give up. And if recognition, if constitutional recognition is something that we need to continue with ‑ I've heard people like Professor Megan Davis speak about that, certainly Aunty Pat Anderson ‑ that doesn't stop. I mean, that's something that's been going on for decades and I don't think that will be a quest that will be overlooked.
JENNETT: But you see that over what sort of time frame? Not in electoral chunks of three years, but?
McCARTHY: Certainly not. I mean, you know, if I reflect on my own experiences as a First Nations woman, I've never looked really at the political cycle because it does come and go. But as a Yanyuwa Garrwa woman, our laws, our songs, our stories stay the same, and that persistence and resilience continues on. And we will always reach out to speak to whoever it is in leadership to try to progress even further the needs and improvements for First Nations people.
JENNETT: Alright, yeah, a long‑term view there, of course. Finally, Northern Territory election –
McCARTHY: Oh, yes!
JENNETT: I think between the two of us we've both –
McCARTHY: Oh, they're going to miss us, Greg. They're going to miss us. I mean –
JENNETT: Had different roles –
McCARTHY: We used to do the coverage of that.
JENNETT: You helped me cover that in the past. Looks like it's going to be a very interesting contest. I just wonder, as an outsider looking in, the future of the gas industry is not so much on the line between the two parties but it is almost a referendum of public acceptance about the development of that industry. Is that on the line, do you think?
McCARTHY: Well, it depends on who you speak to, Greg. I mean, if you talk to people in the Barkly Region, for example, what's on the line for them is whether they’re going to get more housing and opportunity for jobs. If you speak to people in Arafura, it's about the water, it's about access to and fishing and fishing rights and accessibility. So, the gas industry, or any industry, all of it is a part of any election and this is no surprise that different candidates - for example, I know that northern suburbs seats in Darwin are using very much, certainly by the Greens, that emphasis. With the Labor candidates, they are certainly focusing on what's been delivered and what they hope to continue to deliver. So, I would say it's just a nice mix of, "This is your candidates and who are you gonna vote for?"
JENNETT: Well, you framed it out for us, Malarndirri McCarthy. I'm not sure where you'll be but each of us has the opportunity to watch it.
MCCARTHY: I'll be there. I'll be on Larrakia Country in Darwin and certainly, you know, be watching very closely what the outcome is.
JENNETT: You tune in, as I will. And we'll look forward to seeing you back here in Canberra before too long.
MCCARTHY: Thank you.