GREG JENNETT, HOST: The Minister for Indigenous Australians is in Melbourne today announcing a national expansion of the successful Indigenous Rangers Program. We covered some issues of the week with her, starting with some of those findings of the broad-ranging COVID-19 response report that came out earlier this week.
Malarndirri McCarthy, always good to have you on the program with us. Welcome back for another week. Look, I've been trying to do my best --
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Lovely to join you.
GREG JENNETT: Yep, good to see you again. I'm trying to do my best to get over the very large Covid review report that came down this week and I'm especially interested in some of the observations there about the closure and restrictions of remote communities. It said that it did work, however, not in all cases did it stop people moving around within remote communities and, you know, spreading Covid, I suppose. What do you do with some of the findings here? Does it mean that you might in future, God forbid we ever had another pandemic, hesitate to close off remote communities?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Yes, thanks Greg. Well, we certainly need to learn from all of these experiences, and from my perspective, working with First Nations communities, organisations, in particular the health sector, was absolutely critical. Keep in mind we were in Opposition when this occurred. We've established a First Nations caucus and through that caucus, we worked with the then Shadow Health Minister - was Mark Butler - who then was able to make sure that the then Health Minister, Greg Hunt, was very aware of the concerns we were raising in regards to First Nations communities and the imperative of working with the Aboriginal medical services sector across the country. And so I reflect on that period and see that the work that we were able to do across the country in terms of the First Nations health, especially in remote and regional Australia, was very good. We've still got lots to learn in terms of the language translation. One of the difficulties, Greg, if I can reflect on this, was having to drive through the Tanami to talk to communities in Lajamanu and Yuendumu, communities that were also getting very, very mixed up and wrong messages on the Internet about what the vaccine could do to them, in such a negative way. So, there’s a lot of things we can learn about the importance of language messaging and straight talking if this ever happens again.
GREG JENNETT: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed us there, Malarndirri, because there was a section of the report that addressed that very issue, vaccine hesitancy, and it gave the example of the initial reliance in Indigenous communities on the AstraZeneca product, and it said that contributed to a fear of side effects. Do you think that hesitancy still persists, that fundamental issue of mistrust which was more broadly highlighted by the investigation?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: I know that sense of mistrust was certainly highlighted, Greg, in the inquiry. What I found with working with First Nations communities is that there will always be the questions asked, as there should be. What's important to learn from this is that we had such great staff in the Aboriginal medical centres themselves who were able to be the communicators on the ground to the communities. Whether it was communities like in Arnhem Land and Yolngu country with the Miwatj Aboriginal Medical Service. Whether it was in Western Australia with the Broome Medical Service, you just had very strong connectivity because people knew those local people in those organisations. And we have to remember that whether it's a pandemic or not, that local knowledge and that local connection always matters in terms of trying to communicate any information from governments.
GREG JENNETT: Yeah, I'm sure there are good building blocks there that will inform not only preparation for a future pandemic but, you know, day-to-day health management in those communities.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Absolutely, absolutely Greg.
GREG JENNETT: Sounds like that's what you're saying to us anyway, Malarndirri. Let's move on. It's a very weighty report, we could talk all day, I suppose, about some of those findings.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: You and I could talk all day, Greg.
GREG JENNETT: Yeah, well, we've been tempted to before. Look, let's move on. After King Charles's visit, you've had your own clashes. We've discussed that before with Lidia Thorpe. The Senate returns for two weeks in the second half of November, and Simon Birmingham and Coalition members have written to the Senate President asking for clarifications of Senator Thorpe's status, as well as possible rule changes to deter future interruptions. What's your thinking on that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Look, I have no doubt there'll be a lot of conversations once the Senate does sit. We've obviously got Estimates next week and we don't sit until the end of November. From my perspective, though, Greg, I've always been on the record that respectful conversation, even in conflict, in terms of opposing sides, is absolutely critical. And it's where I will always come from to try to reach an outcome. We are incredibly powerful as senators in the Australian Senate, whether we're in government, whether we're in Opposition or on the crossbenches. As senators, as individual senators, we have enormous power, we have enormous authority, and the question is, how do we use that and do we use that wisely? Do we use that for the greater good, and are there better ways of doing things? And I would certainly say that there are important moments here that we can reflect on what occurred. But we also know that moving the country forward has to be about still keeping people at the table to find a way that brings our country together.
GREG JENNETT: Right. So, I don't want to get too wrapped up in the standing orders and rules of the Senate, but are you suggesting -
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Sure. Neither do I, Greg, but I have to.
GREG JENNETT: - I understand, but are you suggesting here Malarndirri, that you think there is some scope to maybe land something with Simon Birmingham and his colleagues around the rules that might deter unnecessary gratuitous interruptions?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: No, I'm not saying that. I haven't seen the letter that Senator Birmingham has sent through yet and I'd certainly be keen to have a read of that. But it's something that we will have to wait until the November, late November sittings. I will no doubt put my mind to that as we get closer. Right about now, I'm just enjoying being on Wurundjeri Country, being out with the rangers, Greg, you know, working with the programs that I said I would work on and obviously prepare for Estimates next week.
GREG JENNETT: Alright, so since you mentioned the Indigenous Rangers Program, that is, as you say, what's taken you there to the capital. What exactly are you announcing today?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Today's a very exciting day, Greg, to announce 1,000 ranger positions across Australia. And this morning in Wurundjeri Country, I was able to join the Narrap Rangers. We've been able to provide over $1 million for the rangers here. That's just one group of 115 across the country and we're looking at around $355 million, Greg. And most of the 1,000 positions are really meant for women rangers. So, I'd like to see over 700 positions filled for women rangers, which I think will be incredibly important.
GREG JENNETT: We've had almost a full week of attention paid to Prime Minister Albanese's travel history and not so long before that, a full week of attention paid to his coastal property purchase. We know some of this stuff resonates as a talking point, at least with voters. Is it becoming a problem for the government's communication?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Not at all. The Prime Minister has made clear what his situation is. Politics is a pretty tough game at times, Greg. We're very pleased with our agenda. We only have to look at the inflation rate to see that we are doing the right things, in terms of policies in the Parliament, to make an impact. We do know that people are still suffering out there, but we are very hopeful in terms of the economy and the way that it's starting to shift in a direction that we're pleased to see go. So, we stay focused on what does matter, in terms of cost of living for each and every Australian in this country.
GREG JENNETT: Alright, so just on the specifics of travel, some suggestions are being made from various quarters about maybe holding some form of inquiry into upgrades, the use of Qantas Chairman’s Lounge as a gift to most parliamentarians. Open to any of those suggestions?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it's interesting, isn't it, that the Coalition are calling for that? We'd still like to understand what the trust account is for Peter Dutton. There is no coming forward in terms of where his interest goes or what's happened with the flights that he's taken with Gina Rinehart, if he wants to include all of those, no doubt there'll be consideration given. But I would say this, that at the moment, in terms of our government and the Prime Minister, we are just getting on with the business of working in the best interests of all Australians.
GREG JENNETT: All right, we'll follow that lead where it takes us. Wrap it up there, Malarndirri McCarthy, thank you once again. We'll see you back in Canberra before too long.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Thanks Greg.