ADAM STEER, HOST: Senator Malarndirri McCarthy is the ALP senator for the Northern Territory and the Assistant minister for Indigenous Australians. Senator, welcome back to the program. Happy new year.
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Good morning, Adam, and good morning to your listeners. Thanks for having me on.
STEER: The report has shown since introducing Closing the Gap in 2007, little has changed across the priority areas that include health, finance, governance, justice, and education. What's going on? Why is that?
MCCARTHY: Yes, well, we certainly received the report. And if I can just say, thank you to the Productivity Commission, for keeping a close eye on it. This is their first report in the three years since. I think what I'd say to your listeners is that we recognize not only at the federal level, Adam, that there were systemic changes that were required. We recognized it at state and territory government levels as well, which is why we went to the referendum last year to empower and enable First Nations people to have a voice, in policies, in matters that impacted them. And the Australian people said 'no' to that. So, what we have to do now is have a look at, each ministry and see how we can use the Productivity Commission's recommendations to ensure that there are systemic changes in other ways. And that's going to be the task for us in the next six months.
STEER: That's a little bit unfair to say that, Senator, isn't it? I mean, you can still have indigenous people being able to have a say in what's going on. It's just not enshrined in Parliament. We've had that previously.
MCCARTHY: What I'm talking about is the systemic change that was required, the structural change. And this is where you look at what the Productivity Commission is saying, closely, is that to enable people to have their voices within those policy decision making. And we tried that last year. We didn't get that way; we didn't get accepted in pursuing that. So, what we have to do now is work in a different way, in terms of that systemic change. And that's going to be what we'll focus on. I know the Prime Minister will give a response next week with Closing the Gap, and we will try and embark on that in the next 12 months.
STEER: Well, what needs to happen and how urgently?
MCCARTHY: Well, I can talk about what I'm doing in my area in terms of the health portfolio area, Adam. And that is to continue to roll out renal dialysis chairs knowing that chronic disease is impacting First Nations people, dramatically, in ways that it shouldn't. You know, with rheumatic heart disease, in Maningrida for example, we are supporting the research that's going on there, especially also with Menzies School of Health and Research. So, we have to ensure the delivery of these rollouts in terms of the renal dialysis machines. We've announced Ti Tree, Borroloola, Harts Range as the three that will receive that. And we have to continue to do that and work in that health space.
STEER: I mean they are services. But what about health literacy? That's also a big issue.
MCCARTHY: Well, you're talking there about education. Clearly that's critical for every child, as well as First Nations people. It is also about homes. Adam, we have to look at the fact that there's so much need for homes and houses in the Northern Territory, in our regional remote areas, homelands, for example. We will hope to be able to make some announcements in that in the coming months. So, these are things that we will continue to work on. We're not giving up. But we do take the Productivity Commission's report very seriously, and we recognize that this report would be coming down this way.
STEER: You're on ABC radio Darwin, Adam Steer with you, northern territory Senator Malarndirri McCarthy is your special guest this morning. So, will the federal labor government announce a new housing partnership with the Northern Territory government?
MCCARTHY: Oh, I'm certainly working on that, Adam. And I know that, Marion Scrymgour and Luke Gosling, both my colleagues here representing the territory, we are certainly fighting for more money, in terms of housing and construction across the Northern Territory. So, fingers crossed, you might hear something along that line in the next couple of months.
STEER: So, you've got faith in the Northern Territory government to be able to spend that money? Because previously they haven't. Money's been given to the Northern Territory government from the feds for housing, and the money sits there.
MCCARTHY: Well, that's a broad brush, Adam. We've seen, increases in houses even in my, you know, community of Borroloola, there's a considerable number of houses, but certainly not enough. We've seen the development of houses in other parts of the territory, certainly around, Central Australia. So, we know that the houses are being rolled out. We just need to build more.
STEER: Okay. We just heard from the convener of the Coalition of Peaks, which is a body that is tasked with helping implement Closing the Gap. Funding is a real issue, and we've just addressed what perhaps is on the cards in terms of housing, which, of course, is an urgent need. How else is Labor going to address that?
MCCARTHY: Well, we see housing and jobs as absolutely critical moving forward. And these are the two key components that, Luke and Marion and I are focused on in regard to the Northern Territory. And I am pleased to say that there will be some, very promising announcements, in coming weeks over those matters.
STEER: The report talks about establishing place-based partnerships, of which one will be in Maningrida, what is hoped to be achieved through those. How do they work?
MCCARTHY: Place based partnerships? Well, what I can say is that, if you look at the Aboriginal community health organizations across Australia, we have over 140. In the Northern Territory, we certainly have well over around 10, 12, 13 Aboriginal community health sector organizations there. You've got Danila Dilba, Congress. You've got Anyinginyi and Katherine West. So, their style and the way they run those organizations is what we're trying to mirror in other areas. Whether it's in education, whether it's in health generally, this is about looking at those sectors that are working and the Aboriginal community. Health sector is a very good example of where it's working. Well.
STEER: One of the main recommendations in the report is for governments to relinquish power to the Aboriginal organizations. So here in the Northern Territory, the federal government has the ability to do that with our budgets, which is what I was touching on before a little bit. Will the federal government consider increasing direct funding to Aboriginal controlled organizations rather than giving it to the territory government to distribute?
MCCARTHY: Well, we are certainly always having conversations with the Northern Territory government, whether it's in housing, education, or other areas. And I'm very aware, especially through the land councils and other Aboriginal organizations, how they do wish to have direct funding. There are grants that enable that. There are grants in terms of infrastructure or community benefit grants that enable those organizations individually to apply directly to the Commonwealth. It's the same with local government. They're able to do the same. So, the opportunity is already there. I don't it's just about what are the extra things that people want? And that's what we need to understand.
STEER: ABC Radio Darwin Adam Steer with you. Your guest this morning, Northern Territory Senator Malarndirri McCarthy, on a subject earlier this week the opposition leader for the CLP here in the NT Leah Finocchiaro had this to say.
Finocchiaro GRAB: So spit guards are a really important piece of PPE that have very little impingement on the offender. So, we have to be protecting our frontline workers in those very disgusting and dangerous situations.
STEER GRAB: Yeah? So, the experts in the royal commission were all wrong then?
Finocchiaro GRAB: Like I said, it's best intentions, but I think we've seen over a number of years that it's failed, and our position is very clear to put the safety of frontline workers first.
STEER: Obviously, part of the agreement to closing the gap is it survives successive governments. If the CLP is elected in August, they say they will not only repeal the use of spit hoods on children, but also bail laws, which means there will be no second chance for youth offenders. How do you respond to that?
MCCARTHY: Well, firstly, I'd say to what the opposition in the Northern Territory that, we are working on reinvestment in the justice area, we've been able to look at programs around Central Australia. We've been able to look at Halls Creek. We've announced justice reinvestment programs, just only last week to 9 other areas across the country. I think that their concept of overturning a Royal commission recommendation is absolutely irresponsible. The whole purpose of that royal commission, which was actually called, by the CLP government and the Liberal National government at the time. And those recommendations need to be taken seriously and need to be continued.
STEER: The police have a right to be safe though, don't they?
MCCARTHY: Well, I would say to the opposition, to Lia Finocchiaro, you know, it is also that evidence base. If she says that it isn't working, then clearly there needs to be an understanding of why or where she's getting that evidence from. I would say that, at the federal level, as I've said, Adam, that we are rolling out justice reinvestment plans, and I'm more than happy to see that. Lia Finocchiaro gets a briefing on that.
STEER: Yeah, we did speak to the Northern Territory Police Association, Nathan Finn, also in favour of reintroducing those spit hoods into the watchhouse areas, of the police area for children as well. Do you think though the labor government would consider a federal ban for spit hoods?
MCCARTHY: Look, we want to see a reduction of First Nations people in the criminal justice system. We've seen way too many deaths in custody. We've seen the need for more health facilities in our prisons, that are more culturally appropriate. We've been able to see that with Congress being in the Alice Springs corrections, we've been able to see that Danila Dilba in the Don Dale centre. There are many other ways we can look at this, and the most important one is to reduce incarceration rates.
STEER: Malarndirri McCarthy, good to talk to you this morning before I let you go, Senator, it is the first week of sittings. What's beyond the agenda your way?
MCCARTHY: Well, it's certainly the tax laws. So that's, certainly taking up considerable discussion in the lower house. And, certainly for us in the Senate, it's making sure that we continue on with passing pieces of legislation that continued on from last year.
STEER: Senator, appreciate your time. Thank you.
MCCARTHY: Okay.
STEER: Thank you. Senator Malarndirri McCarthy, the Northern Territory Senator, almost 8:45 on ABC. Radio down here. Interesting thing. Yesterday, the headlines splashed that the federal opposition was preparing to support those stage three tax cuts. So, what does that mean for you? I might get that information for you if I can find it.