TOM CONNELL, HOST: Senator, thanks for your time. We've gone from the sort of theoretical to the practical on the debate over The Voice, and Linda Burney outlined a couple of examples of what she thinks the voice could do. What's an example of a policy fix you think the voice would be well-placed to do?
NT SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Hello, Tom. Yes, It's been important what Linda Burney has been able to outline at the Press Club this week. It follows on from what we've discussed in regards to closing the gap. We had the Closing the Gap peaks here last month talking about education, health, housing, employment. These are critical areas that we do need to close in terms of life expectancy, and life fulfillment for First nations people. So I was very pleased to hear that. Naturally, we'll also expect to see once, if we are successful. But if there is a voice established that of course we want to know what it is that the First Nations people on The Voice also see as important in their respective areas.
CONNELL: You'd know this issue really well, even at so many different complaints from people and suggestions. Is there something that sticks in your mind that you think if only this could happen, whatever policy change that was big or small, what a difference it could make? Is there something that comes to mind?
MCCARTHY: Look, I come from it from a very personal perspective. I think Tom, here in the Northern Territory, as you know, we had the Northern Territory intervention, which still holds a great deal of trauma for families here across the Northern Territory, and the fact that they never had a voice even at that point and even myself as a member at the time in the Northern Territory Parliament, unable to speak against such a policy. So from that perspective I see it as an opportunity for the empowerment of First Nations people to speak and advise directly to the executive on policies and legislation that will impact them and that will be quite substantial.
CONNELL: So when you're talking about something radical like that and you know, the all these recent debate over alcohol bans, limitations and so on, is it about one, the outcome, but also the buy in that people in the community will feel more comfortable with it if it's the people that are saying what the solution is.
MCCARTHY: Oh, absolutely, Tom. And you're spot on there. It is about the buy in. I don't want the next generation of Australians to have to be dealing with closing the gap. I want them to have other issues to be challenged by. But I certainly think that for those of us who are around now and have been trying to deal with these issues of life expectancy, to rise above poverty, to improve the voices of people across the country, clearly we're not adequately working in that space. And I want to say that if we are successful with the voice, that there'll be other issues that people will have to deal with in future generations that we can't possibly even think of right now. But I do not want the burden of closing the gap to be on our next generation of all Australians.
CONNELL: Minister Burney also spoke about being open to perhaps once or if the referendum passes, legislating to initially restrict it to those four areas that you mentioned earlier. Would that actually go against the Uluru statement of the heart, that limiting of scope?
MCCARTHY: We had an incredible debate that went up to about four in the morning at home with the Senate in terms of the constitutional alteration bill. And what we made very clear throughout that debate was that if successful, then of course it will be up to the parliament to legislate and to determine and define what the voice looks like going forward. So those conversations are obviously going to be best said if we are successful in terms of the four areas that the Minister identified. But naturally there will be others and this will only occur once there is further consultation with First Nations people and organizations across the country if we are successful.
CONNELL: Is it fair to say that there could be pushback if it is limited to those four areas?
MCCARTHY: Well, it's a democracy, isn't it? Tom. Of course, there'll always be push back on different things. But this is the exciting thing about this journey. You know, this really is a game changer for our country, I think, not just for First Nations people, but for all Australians. We want to see our country change, grow, develop and flourish, not just for ourselves but our place in the global community.
CONNELL: One of the architects of the Voice, Megan Davis, has said that the bureaucracy within Indigenous affairs has failed and wants the Commonwealth Department cut in half. What's your reaction to that?
MCCARTHY: Well, again, lots of commentary is being said at the moment, but I'm so focused on the fact that we have to win this referendum term. We've got a hell of a long way to go. You know, out of 44 proposals that have been put to the Australian people, only eight have been won. And I do not lose sight of that. I'm staying focused on trying to win this vote first. And of course, we will have further conversations and debate posts that if we are successful.
CONNELL: I guess the point, though, is if we're saying closing the gap is failing and this big, well-funded department is in a big way responsible for all the ideas and policies that come out to try to close that gap. Wouldn't continuing with the status quo with that department not make any sense?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think the real question here, though, Tom, is about the fact that First Nations people do not have that voice in there. It doesn't matter how many departments you have. If First Nations people are not at the table in terms of influencing the advice and legislation that is to go forward. And that's really what this referendum is all about.
CONNELL: Would that mean some part of the department has a section with people from the Voice or liaising with him directly? You know, it's a it's a big department. Would you expect very formal cooperation and lines of communication?
MCCARTHY: Well, all statutory bodies, all groups and committees that are functions of the parliament, both at a federal and state and territory level, always have a secretariat of some form. And I think it would be fairly obvious that there would need to be that kind of support to assist the administration of the voice. But clearly we're not there yet. I think that's just an expected part of the function of any government to be able to ensure that whatever they establish does have the resources to go with that.
CONNELL: Why do you think Australians are increasingly less likely to support this referendum from every opinion poll we're seeing?
MCCARTHY: Well, I do believe that once the legislation left Capital Hill, Tom, that it was time to put it to the Australian people. And I've been traveling across the country and I'm certainly hearing a very different view. People want this to go ahead. They're concerned, obviously, about some of the really negative issues that are being raised. But as I said, and I've always said this, I'm incredibly proud of our country being a democracy, and this is our opportunity to have that debate so long as we're respectful in it.
CONNELL: Well, what about that, then? Because we had Minister Burney attacking the no camp for Trump style campaigning. Do you need to try to take the high ground here rather than get involved in too much negativity as as a yes campaigner?
MCCARTHY: The minister is doing an incredible job, Tom. I mean, this is a lot on her shoulders and I'm certainly assisting. I know that Senator Pat Dodson has done his best in the time that he's been able to be with this. And whilst he's also on his own personal journey at the moment, we know that it's difficult to win a referendum and I certainly am very proud to walk beside Linda Burney and I encourage the Australian people to see that this is a game changer in a positive way for our country and to say yes.
CONNELL: And positive, is that the key? .
MCCARTHY: Absolutely, totally positive. You know, I mean, I want to see good things for our country, and I know that this will be important when I speak to young people around the country. You know, for them, it's a no brainer. So I encourage them to make sure they're enrolled to vote and give us a big tick for yes.
CONNELL: Senator McCarthy, thanks for your time today.