WALEED ALY, HOST: Senator, when the referendum was announced, it's worth remembering there was actually really, really strong support for the yes vote and that has since been lost. Why is that?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, it was certainly a good weekend on Gulkula country there and everywhere I went there was obviously incredible support. And people said, 'keep going'. I've always known it was going to be tough going into the referendum. It's been made tougher by a lot of the disinformation and misinformation. But we're pretty resilient, and we've just got to keep going right up to 6 p.m. on referendum day.
ALY: Sorry, to be clear. Is that your explanation for the loss of the yes vote? Is it entirely down to misinformation?
MCCARTHY: There's certainly been a lot of misinformation and disinformation, as you may find on social media. There's certainly been a commentary that has been incredibly unhelpful. I do believe that that has caused significant distress to those people that I speak to and have to kind of clarify things. And that is sort of a common theme I notice as I'm traveling.
SARAH HARRIS, CO-HOST: Senator, you've got the floor. Now let's clear some of this disinformation up. What are people getting wrong?
MCCARTHY: Well, I can clearly say that you won't be asked to 'pay the rent'. That's a really important one that seems to come up at different times across different meetings. I've had someone stand up and say that people think that they have to pay a certain amount. That's not the case. This voice is about enabling First Nations people to have a voice and to give advice on pieces of legislation and policy that impacts them, there is no veto rights. You know, that the parliament itself will be able to make decisions knowing they've taken into consideration what the voice advice has been, if we are successful in this referendum.
STEVE PRICE, CO-HOST: Senator, you say no one will have to pay the rent. But I mean, that's another way of saying, well, hang on. The voice could actually ask for reparation, and the voice clearly will ask for treaty. I'm sure that's what people are hearing, and I'm sure that's why people are now more than ever reluctant to tick the box.
MCCARTHY: Well, we've seen a treaty take place in a number of jurisdictions already right there in Victoria, you're seeing it take place. You've got the first people's assembly where there's mature conversation and responsible conversation occurring and you're leading the way. In Queensland, they're doing the same. So it's not new, it really isnt. And so it's important to point out that this is about coming together and talking and working through things. And yet First Nations people haven't had that opportunity to rise above and close the gap. The fact that we have high rates of suicide, babies that are not being born with the right birth weight. These are critical matters to First Nations people. And if we can change that by enabling First Nations people to have a voice in influencing those decisions where it matters, it will be great for our country.
PRICE: Everybody cares about that. But those state decisions you talk about were not put to referendum. They weren't embedded in our constitution. I think that's where Australians who are either unsure or unwilling to vote yes are feeling that they'll vote no. Me included.
MCCARTHY: Well, let me say this, that the request by First Nations people who gathered at Anangu country and near Uluru was exactly for that, to enable a voice to be enshrined in the Constitution, the rule book that governs the Westminster system of governance in this country. And it is really simply a simple request. And I do believe that even from the Northern Territory, when we reflect on policies that were made there, for example, around the Northern Territory intervention and people had no say. So it is important, I think, for Australians to realize this is not just about this current government. If the Voice is successful, it's about saying yes, there should always be a First Nations voice, irrespective of who's in government.
ALY: Senator, before I let you go, I can't help but notice the vivid green and gold that you're wearing. Is this just your normal get up?
MCCARTHY: Can I sneak this in? I look at the Matildas and I think, you know what? How inspiring are they? And Hayley, like someone who was never perhaps going to walk or play again. And then she comes out and that resilience and overcoming the impossible. I kind of look to her and the Matildas and go, you know, could that be us with the referendum. Go Matildas!
ALY: Indeed, we can all agree on that. Senator, thank you very much for your time.