GREG JENNETT, HOST: Let's continue with matters involving the Senate, which is already into debate on the bill to alter the Constitution and create the voice referendum, that debate's underway and continues. Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians Malarndirri McCarthy joins us now in the studio. Welcome back, Senator. Let's start with reference to that exchange we just heard. Were you in the chamber?
NT SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: No, I wasn't, actually. Greg That's the first time I've seen it. My staff certainly heard something but I was in my office in a meeting, so I didn't see it. And that's the first time I've seen it. And it's quite upsetting, actually. And, you know, it's again, just a reminder of how triggering the conversation is in the parliament at the moment. And if it's impacting on senators and parliamentarians, goodness knows how it's impacting on women across Australia right now and in particular Ms. Higgins.
JENNETT: So you draw a direct connection. You're only making inferences, I suppose, based on what we've just witnessed, but you, at least in your own mind, see a connection between the discussions or debates that have been underway in your chamber in particular for two days now over the Higgins matter and Senator Thorpe.
MCCARTHY: Look, Greg, I'm commenting not on the allegation itself, I'm commenting on the fact that I know Senator Lidia Thorpe and we've certainly had our battles. But I just heard in her voice there just how tough that was for her. And it just reminds me of how triggering this is for women in particular. And as I've said about the voice and the debate that we need to have in a respectful and dignified way in the Senate. I would certainly urge senators to remember it even now as they pursue the questions that they have been pursuing with Senator Katy Gallagher.
JENNETT: All right. Let's move on to the Voice, which is why we invited you up, as we often do, to discuss progress. Is it fair to say that you and Linda Burney have recognized the need to colloquially muscle up against the No campaign? Have you been too polite up to this point?
MCCARTHY: Can I say to the people out there that this was always on the cards in terms of the debate around The Voice and I don't believe that being kind and compassionate is a bad thing, Greg. In fact, it's really the vision that we see going forward for what the voice is all about.
JENNETT: And yet Linda Burney in her speech last night says, I fear that the no campaign is importing American style Trump politics to Australia. She describes that as post truth. What are those Trump tactics?
MCCARTHY: Well, I was asked the question on your ABC morning program about even Noel Pearson and the concerns that he was raising. And I pointed out then, and I want to reiterate now that a lot of our leaders and Linda Burney in particular, Senator Pat Dodson, Pat Anderson, Noel Pearson and Marcia Langton, they've been on this journey for decades, Greg, and they do see that this is a pivotal moment while we try and get this legislation through the Parliament. And of course we have to look at what's happening with the no campaign. But I am absolutely confident, absolutely confident once we get this bill through and we've only got hopefully six days to go to get it out there to the Australian people, this will be in the hands of the people who really know what the decision should be.
JENNETT: And I will ask you about that sort of starters gun moment as it's been described when it leaves the Parliament. I do want to come to that in a moment, but on the topic of misinformation or disinformation, once it's identified, do you see it as the role of yourself, others, the Yes23 campaign whomever to actively go out and denounce it or deconstruct it in some way as we get into the campaign proper?
MCCARTHY: No, it's an important question. Of course, we've got to call it out. We have to call out misinformation and disinformation. But we also have to give an assurance that there is a reason why we're going down this path. And it's a path that I do believe and have said from the beginning that is about Australia and it's about Australians that the wrestling that we're doing of ourselves, our spirit, our country, to determine a pathway that we can walk together does mean we're going to struggle with issues. But I do still believe we'll come out the other side of this.
JENNETT: Why do you think things will improve or for that matter, the tone will change once Parliament does its thing, which, as you say, is imminent. It'll happen on the numbers in the Senate next week. Won't politicians actually do more? Peter Dutton on one side, yourself...
MCCARTHY: Politicians will always do things and they'll always talk. But I have great faith in the Australian people, Greg and I do, and I mean that sincerely. You know, I've just come from Barunga, where hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people gathered from all corners of the territory right across from the Kimberley and from far north Queensland, and all of them have come together with the land councils in those regions supporting this journey. We know as a people what it's like to be kept down, to have to keep fighting. It took my people 40 years as the Yanyuwa people to fight for land to prove we're traditional owners, yet we had links with the Maccasans. We traded with them, we were diplomats with them, and it was proven in the Australian courts. We know what it's like to be put down, but we also know how important it is to stay up and stay high to get to the other side.
JENNETT: No, I understand completely your reasons for optimism.
MCCARTHY: Well, but I like to keep telling you haha.
JENNETT: That I completely get it. We had Marcus Stewart on the program yesterday and he was agreeing with you that once the political side of its formation for the referendum is over, then it will flourish at grassroots levels and elsewhere. Do you envisage stepping back yourself in some way to allow that to happen, or would that be an abrogation of your own responsibilities?
MCCARTHY: I do see that I will be going out and being there. In fact, I've had numerous requests by people to still come in and talk about what this means, where we're going and what the steps are of the referendum itself, what is a referendum as opposed to what is an election. So of course, I'll be still out and about and of course I should be. But I think in terms of the public profile and I say this to the media as well, you know, talk to the people out there, the Australians on the ground, out in the cities, the regions, and ask them. And that's going to be important over the next three or four months before we get to the vote.
JENNETT: As you and everyone else keep saying, Malarndirri McCarthy, it will be in their hands before too long, 17 and a half million of them.
MCCARTHY: Absolutely.
JENNETT: And we'll get further updates and analysis from you on how it's unfolding in the weeks and months ahead. Maybe next week when it passes the Senate.
MCCARTHY: I look forward to it, thanks Greg.