GREG JENNETT, HOST: Malarndirri McCarthy, always good to have you back on the program. Feels like a while with the winter break having just ended this week, you'll be heading back to the Garma Festival this weekend, a year after the Prime Minister laid down what was the essence of the proposal for the voice to Parliament referendum. We don't expect any date. In fact, we know we won't get a date from him this weekend. But should we expect him to put up further details about what will and won't be handled by the Voice?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Hello, Greg, and hello to your viewers. It is good to be back. I think there'll be plenty of things going on this weekend. And just to remind Australians, too, that this will be the first Garma festival that we've had without Mr. Yunupingu. And we had his ceremony only over, you know, two months ago. So it'll be quite a significant weekend as there will be many Australians who are coming to pay their respects as well to the Yolŋu people. But also no doubt the organizers of the Garma Festival will be doing that through different ways, whether it's through the buŋgul , whether it's through the speeches. And I guess for me, as not just the Senator for the Northern Territory, but as Yanyuwa Garrawa woman, I will certainly acknowledge the fact that this will be, you know, a different time.
JENNETT: So does that then mean there is a bit of a retreat from using Garma as a platform for voice debate in due deference and respect?
MCCARTHY: Well, I certainly am going there with the sense that, you know, the Gulkula, the land on which the festival is held, will be perhaps a time of regaining strength, of nourishment, of affirmation, or reaffirming the direction, not just certainly for myself as an individual, but also for our country. One of the things that Mr. Yunupingu, was deeply focused on throughout his life, was to always find a way forward that kept our country together, but also at the same time highlighted the inequalities and the injustices that First Nations people faced. So I guess in some respects it will be a fairly sacred time.
JENNETT: I hope you get to pay your respects and I'm sure you will in inappropriate ways. Excuse me if I draw it back now in this conversation... Peter Dutton won't be going, but some leaders of the no campaign will be there. Do you expect them to engage in debate or do you think they might approach it as you are?
MCCARTHY: Oh look, one of the things I have always said and will continue to say, Greg, is that the referendum and our country, you know, is about the democratic rights of Australians to have their say. And I know that the Yolngu people and the Garma Festival will be an opportunity for voices to be heard and arguments to be put. And whether people agree or disagree, so long as it's done in a respectful manner. And that is one thing that I think whether you're a yes vote or a no voter. I do think that there will be particular boundaries. Just from a decency point of view, but also from a cultural point of view.
JENNETT: So on the framing of this week around Parliament in Canberra, so many questions about the second and third phases of the Uluru Statement. When does Truth and Makarrata or when should Truth and Makarrata begin in all of this, assuming the voice referendum is successful?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think this is really a critical time for our country to understand that we have a massive job to do as those of us who support the 'yes'. Winning referendums is the most difficult thing to do in this country. And we want to stay on message and on target with the principle of what the question is about. And obviously, if we are successful, then of course those people who will be a part of the voice will make and give advice to the Parliament on matters that impact them and those matters and Makaratta and treaty would certainly impact First Nations people.
JENNETT: And would they begin that automatically? I'm wondering what the small or relatively small budget allocation that was made. Not a year ago, but about ten months ago now in the October budget of last year. What was that? What is that figure and what was it designed to do?
MCCARTHY: Well, clearly, when the Uluru Statement from the Heart was delivered in 2017, the Australian Labor Party then said, We welcome this Uluru Statement from the heart and those three elements. And we know now that as we proceed towards a referendum that we first have to understand that the voice is what all of those First Nations people who gathered at Uluru wanted first and foremost. They know, and I know that any steps toward anything more than that is just not on the radar. If we're trying to win this referendum.
JENNETT: Not on the radar, but yet inevitable consequences of success. So why not address them? Why not sort of take on straight up the questions of Peter Dutton or journalists who say what does it involve and treaty? What does that mean to you? And when, you could just as easily say, look, these are certain things that will fall into place consequently.
MCCARTHY: But we also said that in the debate in the constitutional alteration bill, Greg. Certainly when Senator Watt and myself stood still 4 am in the morning answering questions on it. There has been constant debate and questioning, and it's not that the politicians won't get a chance to be able to discuss this. I mean, if we are successful, this will be going back to the parliament, whatever it is, whatever the issues are. But first we have to win the referendum and then be able to look at what a model of the voice would look like.
JENNETT: But you're close, professionally and personally to so many leaders, particularly around what was the Indigenous working group, don't you have a clear understanding that an immediate priority for them on the creation of the Voice would be addressing Stages two and three, truth and treaty?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think if we are successful, you know, there will be a lot of priorities and that is firstly the issues around closing the gap and housing. Our people are dying. Suicide rates are way too high. We are losing too many people. They will be the priorities, I have no doubt. But I'm also conscious as I've traveled across the country Greg, you know, I was in Victoria that just had the First Nations People's Assembly there. I know that they're working on their particular jurisdiction. I know that South Australia, with its own voice legislation, is working on its own jurisdiction. I know the Northern Territory's working on it. So I think it's important to certainly point out to Australians, and I know that politicians know this, that those conversations are already happening irrespective of what we're doing at the federal level.
JENNETT: Yeah, well I know it's a fault of journalism that we tend to put carts before horses. I'm not meaning to do that... and we'll be coming back to all these themes before too long. Malarndirri McCarthy, thanks so much for joining us once again.