DAVE MARCHESE, HOST: Senator, firstly, the big news out of Canberra today, as we just heard, Senator Lidia Thorpe has quit the Greens over divisions on the Voice to Parliament. She's been really critical of pursuing a voice before treaty. We're still waiting to see if the Greens are going to commit to supporting the voice in the referendum. Do you think that's more likely now Lidia Thorpe isn't in the Greens.
NORTHERN TERRITORY SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: We certainly encourage the Greens to make a decision that gives surety and confidence to the Australian people, but also to First Nations people that they do want to see the voice succeed at this year's referendum and get behind it wholeheartedly. There's no doubt the Greens have had their conversations and internal issues, but that's for the Greens and obviously today's a day for them to talk about. But in terms of where we hope to see the rest of the conversation go, it's about supporting the voice and we ask all parliamentarians, also Senator Lidia Thorpe, in whatever capacity she is to consider still supporting the voice as we head towards the referendum.
MARCHESE: Senator Thorpe has said that she's going to be able to speak more freely. Are you worried about what that could mean for the Yes campaign going forward, potentially having a really vocal opponent, garnering a lot of support on the left side of politics?
MCCARTHY: Senator Thorpe has always spoken quite passionately about her views, and I'm sure we're going to see more of that in whatever role she takes in the Senate. But I would say that this is such a critical year for First Nations people, but for all Australians, we want to see unity, We want to see understanding and respect, and we want to see a positive outcome with the referendum and the best way to do that is to continue talking and engaging with one another in a manner that does give confidence to the Australian people that this is the way to go.
MARCHESE: Are you surprised by the debate so far? Because it does really feel like it's moving really quickly. Like if you think about it, we're in February, Parliament only just returned today. The voice campaign proper hasn't really started, but there's so much information out there, discussion. Are you surprised by where we're at at this point and how much support maybe a 'no' vote has on both sides of the political divide?
MCCARTHY: It's still early. We're still a fair way away from an actual vote and I am confident, though, as the month of February moves along and we get to what we hope is the beginning of the 'yes' campaign towards the end of the month, that more Australians will become more engaged in a much more positive way. Sure, there'll always be questions, Dave, but at the heart of this is really about respect and recognition and also consultation to include First Nations people. That's why we want to see a voice enshrined in the Constitution.
MARCHESE: I guess there's a lot of people out there, young Australians in particular, who will be hearing the arguments for a 'no' vote. Arguments like, should we be focusing first on treaty? Maybe there's a belief that the voice doesn't have enough power to change things or suggestions that the voice would have an impact on First Nations people's sovereignty. Those people might have initially thought about voting yes, but now they're not sure. They don't know what to think. What do you say to them?
MCCARTHY: Well, I'd say a couple of things. Firstly, that the premiers and chief ministers have agreed in principle to support the voice and each state and territory is embarking on a treaty. They're at different stages. Victoria's well ahead of some of the other states, Queensland trying to move ahead, and the Northern Territory. So we know that treaty is being embarked upon. South Australia is moving towards legislating for a voice, so each state and territory jurisdiction is already almost ahead of us, if you like, Dave, in terms of treaty. But what the Uluru Statement asked for in 2017 was Voice, Treaty, Truth. We in the Federal Parliament see that having a voice and encouraging Australians to vote yes in a referendum is the first step. Then there's truth telling. Then there's treaty or treaty and truth telling with the Makarrata commission. So we are absolutely committed to the three elements of the Uluru Statement. And secondly, on the issue of sovereignty. There has been legal advice that has shown that sovereignty for First Nations people will not be ceded and never will be, certainly not through a voice to Parliament.
MARCHESE: You were speaking before about things kicking into gear a bit more, later this month in terms of the campaign, in terms of the information people might be seeing out there, do you think the Yes campaign, those being a bit slow to get going?
MCCARTHY: A lot of work is taking place behind the scenes. You've got so many people who are part of the referendum working group in the referendum engagement group, and there are other mechanical things which sound really boring, I know, but they're really technical matters that have to be done by the Parliament. Like the referendum legislation, for example Dave. The last time our country, and this is for our listeners, especially our young ones who've never perhaps voted in a referendumm, the last time we had one there was no social media. There was certainly no opportunity to vote over a couple of weeks. There was no opportunity to vote by phone as you did in Covid. So we have to change some of the mechanics in the legislation just to enable it to be updated to a new century of voting in a referendum.
MARCHESE: Senator, you were talking a bit about, you know, how young people wouldn't have experienced the referendum before. Like I've never voted in a referendum before.
MCCARTHY: I'm sure most of your listeners havnt either.
MARCHESE: Yeah it's a big thing to feel like you're informed and have all the information available. How confident are you that this will be successful? Because if you look at the past of referenda passed in Australia, they're more likely not to succeed.
MCCARTHY: Yeah, spot on Dave, we know that there's been 44 referendums held across Australia and only eight have succeeded and those stats are pretty stark. But it also shows that we are, I guess as Australians, being courageous in our belief that this is the way to go and to not try would be worse.
MARCHESE: Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's saying there's not enough detail out there. We're hearing from the Government that there is detail. Experts are saying we can't give too much detail because we risk muddying the waters. How do you make sure that people know exactly how this voice is going to work? Because obviously they're going to be thinking, well, I'm not sure how to vote if I don't understand the mechanism.
MCCARTHY: I think Professor Megan Davis said it most recently, and that is: this is asking Australians to consider First Nations people in the Constitution, Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people to be considered in the founding document in terms of the Westminster system of governance. We're not identified anywhere in that document and I think that's at the heart of this. And in terms of deeper detail, the Uluru statement has said, and I know that people like Professor Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Professor Davies have said that the detail will be left to the Parliament. And this is an important point. It's for Parliament. Then if overwhelmingly Australians vote yes, then it's up to the Parliament to determine the details.
MARCHESE: Senator, what happens if the referendum isn't successful? What would be the consequences for First Nations Australians but also Australia more broadly?
MCCARTHY: Well, that's the journey we're on, isn't it, Dave? There's no doubt that the stats are against us in terms of statistics from the past. But this has to be a journey of faith. It has to be a journey of the heart. And I call on all Australians, put aside your fears. Let's be courageous and unafraid to walk together and make sure that this vote is overwhelmingly 'yes'.
MARCHESE: Just on another issue, there's also been some news out today that alcohol bans are going to be reinstated in Central Australia on the back of a spike in crime and violence in Alice Springs. I know obviously you know the Territory very well, Alice Springs very well. Do you think this is the right move?
MCCARTHY: Well, we certainly want to see the bans in terms of those town camps and communities around Central Australia. So that again, in addition to what occurred two weeks ago when the Prime Minister came in and Linda Burney, that we had a circuit breaker in terms of the weekend takeaway bans and the hourly bands throughout the week in terms of takeaway. We want to see that this is the next step in that. But we've also surrounded it with additional support. We've heard many experts in the field speak about the deeper problems beyond alcohol. We know that there are health problems. So, for example, we're going to be dealing with the foetal alcohol spectrum disorders. We want to fund that. We want to look at job creation and improved community safety and cohesion. So this ban now will enable us to hopefully get ahead in those areas that we should get ahead in, in order for people to live safe and healthy lives in Central Australia and beyond.