THOMAS ORITI: More support will be on the way for communities faced with stubbornly high rates of imprisonment of First Nations Australians, the Federal Government will today formally announce funding, it was allocated in the recent Budget though, for community based justice reinvestment programs for 15 locations around the country. The areas include places like Townsville, Katherine, Port Augusta, and they'll share in $69 million in funding to develop their own community strategies to reduce incarceration. Christine Butler, who leads a justice reinvestment project in Katherine, has welcomed the funding.
CHRISTINE GRAB: We're excited and thank the Federal Government for this support in funding to move the Katherine Justice Reinvestment Group along.
ORITI: And this funding will be announced at the Joint Council on Closing the Gap meeting in Darwin. The Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator Malarndirri McCarthy, will be there and joins us now. Senator, good morning and thanks for being back on the program.
NT SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Oh, good morning, Thomas, and good morning to your listeners across the country.
ORITI: So justice reinvestment? When we talk about that, just explain that firstly for us. What does that mean?
MCCARTHY: Well, it simply means working at a local level. We've seen over various jurisdictions, the local groups working together around their concerns of high youth incarceration and incarceration more broadly for men and women. And we know certainly from the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody that we have significantly way too high incarceration rates. So when we went to the election last year, this area was incredibly important for us, in particular for our Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus and also Linda Burney. We know that the justice system is an area that we've got to see a reduction in the high rates of First Nations people going into.
ORITI: But when we talk about what's going to happen with this money though, what does it actually mean? Are we talking about community led approaches and First Nations organizations involved?
MCCARTHY: Absolutely its about community led approaches. These solutions can be at a local level, should be at a local level, and we're really, really focused on that. One of the issues we've seen over many decades is the systemic problems. And we think that going through this at the local level, working on those local solutions, each place is slightly different. We've been working very strongly with Alice Springs. I think that might have been one of my last conversations with you and we've seen some wonderful outcomes there. But again, that's with the local organizations coming together. We've got the native title holders there Lhere Artepe. They've got foot patrols happening with about 50 to 80 local people.
ORITI: And First Nations led I assume, as well? These are organizations that are first nations led in these communities. Would that be correct to say?
MCCARTHY: A lot of them are, but it doesn't have to specifically be. As long as organizations are working with local first nations organizations and communities. That's critical. And this is also the discussion that we're having with the Close the Gap Joint Council today, just ensuring that First Nations people are there at the table.
ORITI: When we look at justice reinvestment and good to know you're saying you're seeing some positive results in Alice Springs. They're been underway in places like Bourke, for example, in far west New South Wales for some years. Even this year, though, Bourke considered to have quite a high crime rate compared to the rest of the population. Some real challenges with youth crime. How do you think it's effective there? Are we seeing mixed results with this approach depending on where you are in Australia?
MCCARTHY: I do think that the example of what we've seen in New South Wales has led the way in terms of the rest of the country having a look at it and there is no doubt they were going to be problems. You know, this will always be an area that we've got to watch. I think what we've decided is that from the examples that we've seen that have been good on that learning in New South Wales, we're offering the opportunity for other states and territories to actually access the opportunity or go and have a look. Now whether those places are spiking again. Well, I think it's just human nature that we're going to have problems, but at least we know that there is a core group locally who are determined to keep on top of it as best they can.
ORITI: Does it cast a revealing light, though, the fact that these programs might need to be alongside other supports as well?
MCCARTHY: Absolutely, this is why the Closing the Gap Joint Council comes together to look at the overall life issues that impact First Nations people: health, education, housing and now, of course, justive is very much a part of that.
ORITI: And I do note that a national body for justice reinvestment has been recommended for quite some time. The Law Reform Commission's 2018 Pathways to Justice report. So five years down the track, could it go beyond the 15 locations currently targeted as part of this announcement?
MCCARTHY: We will keep going. We know that there are various jurisdictions that still need to be looked at. We will keep encouraging those jurisdictions to be involved and be at the table. So I know that our attorney general is very focused on that.
ORITI: Okay, Senator, just on the Northern Territory and you mentioned Alice Springs there a moment ago. The government yesterday announced lowering the cap on the number of poker machines allowed across the Territory, lowering the cap, but that does still allow for 20 more poker machines to be installed. Can I just ask you about that while I've got you there? What do you make of that announcement?
MCCARTHY: Well, we know that gambling is a real concern for all Australians right across the country, and there has to be a good look at this. I haven't had a chance to see what the Northern Territory Government is doing in particular in that space, but I do know it has caused great concern in some of our smaller locations across the Territory.
ORITI: While we've got you there, this interests me as well, just finally, the Australian Electoral Commission, it's launched its own web page aimed at clearing up any disinformation being peddled about the referendum for an Indigenous voice to Parliament. It says this is not about fact checking claims around the case for yes or no, but about the process and its role. And it's had to correct claims that its moves to boost Indigenous enrolment to vote is quote according to the AEC, a yes vote by stealth. It says the two are entirely unrelated. I just want to ask, though, do stuff like this worry you over how murky the conversation's potentially getting when it comes to the vote?
MCCARTHY: Well, I just want to be really clear here. The Australian Electoral Commission and the staff who work for them do an incredible job. And they have I've seen it throughout the numerous federal elections that I've run in. And I think it's it's really unhelpful that there are people who want to attack the very body that is there to communicate just simply the messages for all Australians. So I'd really urge throughout this campaign for people to stick to the argument about whether the voice will work or not. You know, put your case properly and fairly and respectfully. Some of the debate that we're hearing and no doubt we're going to hear more of Thomas as we go into two weeks of Senate sittings to finalize the constitutional alteration bill. We're going to hear more negative, horrible stuff. And I just urge even politicians who are going into the Senate, you know, be mindful of the words you're using. You know, don't weaponize this. There are so many Australians who just do not want to get hurt the way they did through the marriage equality debate.
ORITI: And I imagine will be a talking again down the line as the clock ticks down towards that vote. Senator, thank you very much for joining us on the program.