ALI MOORE, HOST: Well after the failed referendum for an Indigenous voice to Parliament, What's the future for consultations and engagement to try to close the gap and address Indigenous disadvantage? A delegation of Victorian Indigenous leaders have taken their voice to Canberra today. They've had a series of meetings with the Prime Minister and with senior ministers, including Malarndirri McCarthy, the Senator for the Northern Territory and the Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians and Indigenous Health. Senator, welcome to Drive.
SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Oh, hello, Ali, and hello to all your listeners. Lovely to be with you.
MOORE: W hat was the aim of today's meetings from your point of view?
MCCARTHY: Well, your Victorian Senator John Stewart, was able to organize with First Nations organizations in Victoria and invite them to Parliament to come and meet with the Prime Minister and Linda Burney and myself so that we could actually hear from them as to how they're going, and also look at what steps we should take going forward. This is a time where Linda Burney and myself are certainly taking the time to listen to people around the country and we certainly started with Victoria today.
MOORE: It is sort of like a mini voice to Canberra to try and get the Plan B.
MCCARTHY: Well, there's a couple of steps here. One is that people are still hurting, Ali. And it was clear from the members that we met with today that they wanted to represent their organizations, the families, the people that they represent in their respective areas. You know, we had the Federation of Victorian Traditional Owner Corporations. We had the Victorian Aboriginal Childcare Agency, the Yappera Children's Service, Rambalara Aboriginal Co-op, the Victorian Aboriginal Legal Service. So there were so many organizations that came to actually talk to us about the referendum, about their feelings and the people that they represent. And I think that was important to do.
MOORE: And I'm guessing part of that or very much part of that was to look for if you don't want to phrase it like a plan B, but to look for a way forward where what they wanted can be achieved in one way or another.
MCCARTHY: There was that, but there was also, you know, gratitude. We certainly heard from, and it was quite humbling, Ali, to hear from the leaders of these different organizations across Victoria just to come and say thank you. I thought that was well, that took us a bit by surprise and that was a pleasant surprise. I think in amidst a lot of what people are experiencing across the country is still reflection and some hurt. Some need to work through what the next steps are. And I reminded them as they reminded me, that, you know, we had over 6 million Australians who did say yes, and we certainly won't forget that and we're going to encourage the other 9 million or so Australians to learn more about First Nations people. And that was certainly a request by the members from Victoria today.
MOORE: You're listening to Senator Malarndirri McCarthy. Senator, it's certainly a look back question, not a look forward question. But was there a sense that it was better to have had a referendum and failed than to have had no referendum at all?
MCCARTHY: Absolutely. There was never any view from those present today that going down the path of the referendum was not the way to go, if anything, they reiterated some learnings from it. And one is that, you know, the fundamental feeling of needing to have a voice and that belief that First Nations people know the solutions to their own problems and should be heard was echoed again today. So they're very passionate about the fact that we did go down the referendum path and now we need to regather, regroup and move forward, but move forward with all Australians. There are things that we can learn from this. And I think I might have mentioned that education is a key thing, there with so many people who've either moved and arrived to Australia that didn't know much about First Nations people and history. And so there's lots of areas that we can look at in the learning of this, and that's what Linda Burney and myself and the Prime Minister are taking on board over these next few months.
MOORE: When it comes to closing the gap post referendum. How do you see the biggest challenges? Is it I mean, if you think about the lack of progress that we've made to date and what do you think will make a difference and how do you get that, I suppose that unity of purpose that is clearly needed?
MCCARTHY: Well, I'd just say to our listeners that is that there was an urgency before the referendum and there still remains an urgency after the referendum. To reduce the high incarceration rates of First Nations people, to see our babies born with far greater birth weights than they are, and to ensure that there are jobs and housing. So we continue on knowing that that urgency is there. One of the areas I have responsibility for is in the area of health and to roll out 30 dialysis units across the country. And each of those units will have four chairs. We've got 500 health practitioners that we know will be employed across the country over the next couple of years. And we're hoping to announce the first 120 of those in coming months. So we've got work that we're going to continue to do. But this was always about the voice of First Nations people. And today the Victorian organizations of the Aboriginal community came to put their voices on the table to us and say, hey, stay strong, let's all move forward and let's make sure we can continue to keep coming to talk with you and work through what the next steps will be.
MOORE: So does anything you say continue on. Does anything change in terms of the consultation and the involvement process or is that a continuation of what was before? I'm only trying to get to the question that if we know what the voice was meant to do, is there going to be changes that will help to come closer? I'm not saying that you're going to put a voice in by stealth. I'm just trying to say, will there be a change to the consultative processes?
MCCARTHY: Well, there certainly has to be an understanding that First Nations people's voices need to be heard in a way that really does impact policy in this country and certainly at a federal level. What you're doing in Victoria with the First Nations Assembly I think is a really important example not only for the Commonwealth but for the other jurisdictions to see. And I encourage the Victorian Government and I encourage other governments to continue on their pathway with First Nations people in each of those jurisdictions, because it is so critical that First Nations people are at the forefront in those decision making areas like you are in Victoria with the First Nations Assembly and the agreements that you're obviously working out between First Nations people and the Victorian people.
MOORE: And does that help with the consultation process at the federal level?
MCCARTHY: Well, you're an example that I think is important for us to really look at and see if it can be emulated.
MOORE: There's no, I mean, I think there was plans for a voice in South Australia which were put on hold during the whole referendum process. But do you see other states following Victoria?
MCCARTHY: Well, we see South Australia's voice is still very much a part of their change. They were obviously waiting for the federal, you know, referendum to take place. My understanding is that the voice selections will still go ahead as planned in 2024. And of course, one of the other things that came through in the learning of all of this is the fact that local voices still need to be part of any solutions going forward. So we heard that last week. Linda Burney was in the Tiwi Islands last week. We certainly heard that from the Indigenous economic businesses that met on Larrakia Country in Darwin. So all of this information we're just taking forward. And we're also giving people a bit of space and time. Not everyone's ready to talk, as you can imagine. So we're just walking with people and some of them are ready to have the discussions with us and others who are just not quite there yet.
MOORE: Malarndirri McCarthy, thanks for joining Drive this afternoon.
MCCARTHY: No worries, Ali. And can I just do a big shout out to Victoria and to the people who are listening and thank you for your support and those of you who are still wanting to learn about First Nations issues. We'll certainly be reaching out to you in the days and months coming ahead.