ANDY PARK, HOST: Well, 15 remote communities across the country will receive support as part of an $81 million fund for community led initiatives, which the federal government says will help reduce the incarceration rate for First Nations Australians. A wicked problem if there ever was one. The announcement came earlier this morning ahead of the Joint Council on Closing the Gap meeting in Darwin. Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney said working with communities can lead to better outcomes.
LINDA BURNEY GRAB: A reduction in domestic violence, a reduction in custody and an increase in educational participation. Justice reinvestment is about communities putting jobs, school, education, culture and training first.
PARK: Joining me now is the Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy. Welcome back to you.
NT SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Oh, good afternoon and good afternoon to all your listeners.
PARK: How does this work? What is justice reinvestment?
MCCARTHY: Well, our focus when we went to the election last year was the real concern around the high incarceration rates of First Nations people. And we knew that with programs that we've seen in New South Wales, like Bourke, for example. Justice reinvestment is about local solutions on the ground with local community based and Aboriginal organizations and families working to try and keep, usually young people, but certainly any First Nations person either out of the jail system or certainly not re-offending again, and we do see that we have a huge crisis with the rates of imprisonment in our country. And so we took to the election that this was going to be an area that we would expand right across the country to those communities and towns that asked for it and needed it. We've started first with Alice Springs, as your listeners might recall, the year began terribly for residents in Alice Springs, and so we've identified Alice Springs as one of the first places and we're certainly seeing some some good results. It's still early days, but that's certainly one and then today we've announced 15 more.
PARK: This announcement today comes a week after the ABC reported that the Northern Territory town of Katherine had seen a spike in unlawful entries and property damage in the past 12 months, you might say, mirroring the events of Alice Springs. Is Katherine going to be one of the towns on this list and you know what it is or how this scheme would go to address those issues there?
MCCARTHY: Katherine is definitely one of the 15 announced today. I was in Katherine early in May and listened to organizations there, in particular some of the legal community areas. And knew then that was a problem, which is why we took that back to Canberra and made sure that certainly the Attorney-General and his office were aware of the concerns of Katherine residents. So I'm very pleased to see that Catherine is one of the 15 announced today, you know, along with Darwin as well. I'm very conscious of the concerns here on Larrakia Country. So you know, from a Northern Territory perspective it's very good to see.
PARK: The latest Closing the Gap Data from the Productivity Commission found that some measures, in fact key measures were in fact going backwards while other targets weren't on track, despite kind of improving. What are you doing to ensure targets like reducing the suicide rate are met?
MCCARTHY: We are so conscious of those targets. We've just held the Joint Council on Closing the gap here today, Andy, where state and territory ministers for first nations issues across the country, came together, along with the coalition of peaks who worked very closely to improve that health issue for First Nations people. And suicides is just on the rise and we are concerned around mental health issues in particular. So that was a discussion and a continued discussion. And what we're doing at the federal level, certainly in my area as the Assistant Minister in Indigenous Health is to try and improve those outcomes.
PARK: Coming back to this $81 million, how will it be tracked against successes and failures? And, you know, hypothetically, how will the communities who who fail and don't turn around their indigenous incarceration rates be then administered? Will more money be given to those communities if their problems aren't fixed?
MCCARTHY: That's an important point. It's certainly something that the Joint Council on Closing the Gap will definitely be keeping an eye on. The coalition of peaks make it very clear to state and territory ministers and what they're not happy with, what they need to see improved on. And they you know, they they make that very clear. And we certainly heard that today. So they will obviously be there ongoing monitoring. But I have to just point out to Andy that, you know, the Albanese government has partnered with three First Nations bodies, you know, Ninti One, the Jumbunna Institute for Indigenous Education and Research and the Justice Reinvestment Network Australia who no doubt will be continually contributing to ensuring that there is success. And if there are problems we can identify that as soon as they're occurring.
PARK: Surely the learnings of this program are almost as important as the immediate kind of outcomes. So I mean, $81 million, will you be able to publicize the communities whose programs didn't live up to expectation so that others can learn from them?
MCCARTHY: Sure. Look, we're we have to keep working on those areas. I would certainly like to think that people will see on the ground if it's working. We've seen in Alice Springs with the Lhere Artepe native title holders there that they are having, you know, early success. So we know just anecdotally if people are feeling safer, more able to go about and conduct their business, that's a good thing. But in terms of the actual method of research, there will be no doubt. You know, we'll hear more about that in coming days.
PARK: So there isn't a target percentage of indigenous incarcerated prisoners that you're aiming for with this money.
MCCARTHY: We want to reduce it completely. I mean, that's really the target. We've got it in the target points 10 and 11 in closing the gap, we made sure that the justice targets were a part of this and coalition of peaks made sure that that's the case.
PARK: The ACT and Victorian governments have plans to sort of gradually lift the age of criminal responsibility to 14 over the course of a few years, while other jurisdictions across the country continue to sort of assess this issue. In your opinion, is ten too young?
MCCARTHY: Oh, absolutely. Linda Burney said that today, you know, it is the position of our federal caucus and our federal government. We know that it's a state and territory jurisdictional issue, but we've certainly highlighted that.
PARK: So I mean, the United Nations standards have the age of criminal responsibility at 14. Is that what you and your government want to see implemented in Australian states and territories?
MCCARTHY: Well, we certainly emphasize that with our state and territory jurisdictions that they have to move on it. We've seen here in the Northern Territory that have moved on up to the age of 12 and I know no doubt they're having further conversations in regards to that, but we are very mindful of it.
PARK: As you said, it's not a matter of federal responsibility, it's the states and territories. So how do you encourage them to see your caucus and your view that the age of ten is too young?
MCCARTHY: Well, we certainly do it in days like today when we had the Joint council on Closing the Gap. And we have an opportunity to meet with the ministers of First Nations affairs across the country. But of course the Attorney-General does it no doubt more explicitly and more focused when he gathers with the attorneys generals from across the country.
PARK: Let's move on to the voice to Parliament. Liberal MPs have been accused of misquoting two former High Court judges on the Indigenous voice to Parliament. What do you make of this situation?
MCCARTHY: Tthey have obviously been identified as being incorrect in regards to that by a couple of judges who appeared before the parliamentary inquiry. And I think it's important that they put on the record what it was that they had said to the parliamentary inquiry. And I just urge as we go into this next fortnight of parliamentary sittings, especially in the Senate, I just urge Senators that we have to be, you know, very mindful of the language that we use in this debate when we do go into debate the constitutional alteration bill in the next two weeks of sittings. It matters what we say and it also matters how we say it. And I think it's important that truth doesn't get lost here.