ALEX BARWICK, HOST: Well, a lot of people are really worried that the ongoing spate of stolen cars being driven dangerously by kids, whether in Alice Springs or in Katherine, will lead to someone dying. The Police Commissioner, Jamie Chalker has said he's actually seeing a trend that's happening right across the country, copycats trying to go viral, filming themselves and then posting it to social media, sometimes targeting police or members of the public with those stolen cars. And as a result of what has been unfolding over the last few weeks in Alice Springs has now announced more police.
POLICE COMMISSIONER JAMIE CHALKER: I've sent 45 additional police down there. I'm sacrificing other work areas. We've been under pressure across the board. We've filled the jails. We have had more than 56 youth currently incarcerated.
BARWICK: Okay. So that is the police commissioner now. It was a planned operation for December. It was brought forward to yesterday and it followed NT police essentially warning residents in Alice Springs not to come into the CBD because of these cars being driven dangerously. That warning has now been given twice in a fortnight, with the CLP claiming the Territory Government has lost control of the streets of Alice. And the local mayor calling for swift Federal Government help. Labor Territory Senator Malarndirri McCarthy is with you this afternoon. Thanks so much for your time.
SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Thanks, Alex, and hello to all your listeners.
BARWICK: Malarndirri McCarthy, have you ever heard of this happening before in the Territory? Residents being told to stay out of the CBD because of crime?
MCCARTHY: No, I've not heard of it before, Alex, and it is very concerning. It is important what the Police Commissioner has done in terms of the relocation of the officers there last night, and I do understand that was brought forward by a month. But clearly there are many issues that need to take place or many things that need to take place in Alice Springs. From a federal perspective, we've certainly been there quite a number of times, especially with Linda Burney and we have made commitments to Alice Springs and I would like to see those commitments actually roll out as soon as possible.
BARWICK: I wanted to talk to you more about what those are, but I want to bring in the Alice Springs Town Council Mayor Matt Paterson's comments. He says the situation is so dire and he doesn't feel as though there is enough national attention right now.
ALICE SPRINGS MAYOR MATT PATERSON: I just I just don't know what needs to happen to get the attention from the Prime Minister and the government because they need to step in. We're a territory. The Government still has complete control over the Northern Territory. If the Northern Territory Government can't control 30 kids or half a dozen kids or whatever it is, well then clearly they need help.
BARWICK: Do you think it's reasonable what he's saying, that the Territory Government just doesn't seem to be able to control Alice Springs?
MCCARTHY: Well, can I just actually go to the point of his grab, which is asking for the Federal Government to do I guess, Alex, and that is that Linda Burney and I and Marion Scrymgour actually met with Mayor Patterson and with Attorney-General Chancy Paech about the Justice Reinvestment Program for Alice Springs. And that was two weeks ago, and there was a commitment there to Alice Springs, to the Mayor, as part of that $79 million commitment to reinvestment across Australia and Alice Springs is a number one priority.
BARWICK: So that happened. It happened before he said that. He doesn't feel as though it's, you know, an urgent enough response? So what do you take away from the fact that you've just had this meeting with him, you've told him what sort of investment you're making, and yet he's still saying, hang on a minute, we need more help from the federal government.
MCCARTHY: Well, there's probably two elements to that. One is that no doubt the mayor is under enormous pressure and stress and that's understandable given the concerns around Alice Springs at the moment. But secondly, there is also a requirement for the Mayor to also act on what we have said in terms of the package for Alice Springs and I'd certainly encourage him to do that. I know he looked at going to some of the other communities in New South Wales about their justice reinvestment and what they were doing. And I know that's planned at some point in the next month or two. So we've seriously had these conversations with the mayor. So I'm certainly very disappointed if there is a view that we're not keeping up our end of the bargain on that.
BARWICK: In terms of the commitments that the Federal Government has made to Alice Springs. Which ones do you think will directly address this ongoing and really dangerous behaviour of young kids stealing, stealing cars and then driving them, driving them throughout the CBD, whether it's in Alice Springs or in a place like Katherine, as has also happened.
MCCARTHY: Alright, well I'll just start with Alice first up Alex, and that is that $20 million is going directly to the Gap Youth Centre and other youth services in Alice Springs. So that's significant funds to assist with use in Alice Springs itself. There's also a $150,000 to upgrade the Brown Street Youth Centre in Alice Springs. So these are significant financial injections as to why they are still a problem. Then of course I can have a look into that and see what's going on. But that commitment is well and truly on the table. So that's number one in terms of other places across the Northern Territory. Obviously we're working with those towns as well with Alice Springs. Certainly at Grooye Eyrelandt we saw how the statistics dropped by 95% around the youth problem and that was a significant island community that had massive problems with youth. So we are looking at all of these things across the Territory and across Australia.
BARWICK: You would have heard the Minister for Territory Families and Police Minister Kate Warden talk about this plan that the Government has been working on to remove vulnerable kids off the streets of Alice Springs, whether they commit a crime or not, but if they are deemed to be, I guess, being neglected, we yet to hear the absolute details of that. But what do you make of that plan?
MCCARTHY: Well, I certainly would like to hear the full details of that as well, Alex. I mean, obviously I'm down here in Canberra at the moment with Parliament, but as soon as Parliament here is over, I do want to understand what the Minister means in regard to that.
BARWICK: It sounds like you've got some concerns potentially.
MCCARTHY: Well, look, we are concerned right across the country. We want our young people to have a better future, but we also want them to do the right thing. And the only way they can do that is to know that they have a future. And I think these are the things that are not only just happening in the Northern Territory, but obviously concerns right across the country.
BARWICK: Let's talk about the drivers of this. Do you think that some of the drivers of this are potentially the end of stronger futures legislation, which has seen more alcohol across the Northern Territory?
MCCARTHY: Look, I think it's too easy to put it down to one issue. I do think that there's been a combination of concerns across regional and remote Australia with the lack of jobs. I know that the Community Development Program has been a real problem, so we are very conscious of the fact that unless people have jobs, unless they have homes, unless they have hope for a better future, there will always be massive problems.
BARWICK: But does more alcohol in the community potentially lead to more crime?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think with statistics have certainly shown that alcohol contributes greatly to many things, whether it's crime and also family and domestic violence, Alex. So I think we've got to be really careful about pigeonholing and pinpointing and panicking, like, let's look at this very calmly and look at the data that's supposed to be coming through on this.
BARWICK: But trying to understand the drivers is obviously so crucial. It feels as though there's a willingness. And certainly the police commissioner spoke at length yesterday in his press conference how much he felt alcohol was causing problems. But he doesn't want to be drawn on whether or not the end of Stronger Futures legislation is part of the driver. But given the end of it has seen an increase in alcohol, why is there a reluctance to acknowledge that, you know, one has led to the other more alcohol in the community?
MCCARTHY: I certainly can't speak for the police commissioner, but what I can say is this that the Federal Parliament is very focussed on the Northern Territory. I mean, Senator Price and myself co-sponsored a motion to have an inquiry into the Northern Territory around the ending of Stronger Futures, and that joint parliamentary inquiry is underway and that will provide us with the data and the information that we require.
BARWICK: Senator Malarndirri McCarthy is with me this afternoon on ABC Radio Darwin and the Northern Territory. Senator Reconciliation Australia's Barometer Report has come out. It shows that racism is on the rise since 2020, with 60% of First Nations people experiencing racism in the past six months. How worrying is that to you?
MCCARTHY: Look, that is a concern, Alex, and obviously we don't want to see racism in any form against anyone. And to see these stats come through, you know, is a concern. I mean, obviously we've also seen some pretty horrific behaviour in the last couple of months. I mean, we only have to look at Western Australia, for example, and some pretty sad events that have occurred over there that show that racism could possibly be a part of a lot of these things.
BARWICK: You're referring to the death of 15 year old Cassius.
MCCARTHY: That's right.
BARWICK: Can I ask you personally if you've experienced racism over the last six months?
MCCARTHY: Well, I've certainly experienced it throughout my life. I'd have to sit and think about any particular examples over the last six months. But, you know, sometimes it can be as subtle as whether you're going to be picked up by a particular taxi or whether you're going to be served before others who've been waiting there in less time in line than you. But, you know, those are things that do matter and people do observe that as points of racism. I think in terms of my own experiences, I know I have experienced that as well.
BARWICK: Why do you think it's it's growing and what can we do to stop it?
MCCARTHY: I guess greater awareness. You know, we do we we do have to remember that we want to be a country that is tolerant, that is compassionate, and that does care. But we also have to be mindful of the fact that racism is usually about people and prejudices, is usually about people not knowing things. And I think Senator Pat Dodson said it when he spoke about the barometer that racism and prejudices are things that are usually learnt. We have to try and reach out to people and try and teach them that sometimes their behaviour is not the way to go.
BARWICK: Just finally, the Senate had a second reading of the bill to restore territory rights. Normally at that moment it would go to a vote. But that didn't happen, did it? Why not?
MCCARTHY: No, it's it was a second reading speech, Alex, and there were 41 people who supported it, 25 against the second reading speech, which then went into a committee stage. And there was debate amongst some members of the opposition who said that they wanted to introduce amendments to the bill. Now, Senator Katy Gallagher, who is a territory senator from the ACT, spoke in response to that and said that, well, there was really no need for amendments to this particular bill because the actual bill is about the reversal of the bill. So there's really no need to amend that and that took some time.
BARWICK: Do we know what we do know? What's in those amendments that werent actually presented?
MCCARTHY: That's the that's the problem, Alex. The Senate was asking for those amendments to be tabled so that we could actually see what senators who wanted to introduce the amendments were talking about. But those amendments weren't available. And yet this bill has been in the parliament for nearly six months. So people were very surprised at this announcement of amendments. And some may think it's obfuscation of the Senate at the moment, but others may view it as 'well it was a bit too soon' and they want to bring through the amendments next week.
BARWICK: I can say from the list here of who voted for and against the second reading speech today to to restore territory rights. You clearly voted for it. But your fellow Territory Senator, the CLP's Jacinta Price, voted against it. Do you understand why and is that disappointing?
MCCARTHY: Look, this is a conscience vote, Alex and I need to make that really clear. Every senator needs to dig deep and vote with their conscience. I know that Senator Price has her reasons for her vote, and I think those questions are best directed to her in terms of my reasons for my vote. I just firmly believe that this is about the rights of the people of the Northern Territory and the Northern Territory's ability to make its own decisions. And that's why I vote in support of the Northern Territory, always being able to have that right.
BARWICK: Senator, I will leave it there. Thanks so much for your time.