THOMAS ORITI, HOST: So the leader of the Nationals made his feelings clear there. He doesn't believe the voice would benefit the Indigenous community. You are a member of the Indigenous community. What's your response to that?
SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: Well, look, it's clearly very, very disappointing, but very, very early really. I'm quite surprised that David Littleproud would even consider contemplating making a decision when there's still so much work ahead for us to do. We still have plenty to do. And I think and I hope that those members of the National Party will absolutely reconsider what they've done. I think it's, as Senator Pat Dodson says, premature and inept.
ORITI: He says the party has consulted widely. Any idea who they've consulted?
MCCARTHY: I think that might be a bit of a porky pie there. I mean, it sounds like he's only spoken to, from listening to his interview this morning, it was Warren Mundine. He said he Aunty Pat Anderson a call. You know, he might have just ticked a few boxes, but I'd say I've had a conversation with Pat Anderson, and she certainly was quite surprised by his decision as well. So I would urge those members of the National Party to really have a good look at this. This is a momentous time for our country. It is about bringing people together. And what you've chosen to do now really quite prematurely is to put yourself out of the game without even having any detail whatsoever. And I think that's really sad for people you represent?
ORITI: I played a little bit of audio you might have heard in the opener there from another Indigenous academic basically saying, "look, I think that a lot of people in regional and rural Australia will see through this one". We've heard from some other commentators who say it could be a blow to the referendum campaign. What's your view on that though? Do you think the Nationals speaking out about this will actually make much of a difference to the campaign?
MCCARTHY: Look, it already is making a difference in the 24 hours that it's been in the news. So clearly what they've done has had an impact and not a very positive one.
ORITI: In what way? In what way do you think it's made a difference already in 24 hours, though? Do you think it's actually swayed public opinion now?
MCCARTHY: It's shown that this matters to the Australian public. It matters what people think and the fact that they've made a decision quite prematurely. People have come out slamming that and it shows that people do care.
ORITI: So you're saying it's actually potentially, in your view, made a positive difference, in your opinion, to the referendum campaign?
MCCARTHY: If you're not really willing to reach out on this generous invitation by First Nations people, and this has been a process that's taken over the last 15 years and certainly since the Uluru Statement in 2017, then, you know, that's a really sad indictment of where you sit in terms of the future of our country and the very possibilities of what good things can happen for our country.
ORITI: I want to put this to you, Senator, because David Littleproud, he said, "hang on, I don't want to not close the gap" he said, "that's important to me, but I feel the voice would add another layer of bureaucracy so it won't help to close the gap". Is that a fair call, that there's a chance bureaucracy could potentially weaken the cause? What do you feel about that argument?
MCCARTHY: Well, we have to unpack that because David Littleproud hasn't actually met with Linda Burney, the Indigenous Affairs Minister, to actually understand what this journey is about. So if he's not seeking advice and making informed decisions, then he's actually made a very uninformed decision, a very hasty one, and certainly an inept one. So I think whatever he says about closing the gap, it's actually the fact that he's made a decision on The Voice when he's received no information whatsoever.
ORITI: Do you think that this could mean the Nationals will actually actively back a no campaign or they simply won't endorse a yes campaign and sort of distance themselves from it altogether?
MCCARTHY: Look, I want to reach out to the National Party and say to all members of Parliament that we are working with First Nations people across this country in terms of the working groups, the engagement groups who are going to meet again next week. Give people a chance to detail and brief you in the year ahead. We have still got a long way to go on this. Don't be too hasty. What's the rush? And I would say, slow down. You know, there are people who really, genuinely want to see good things happen for our country. And what you're doing now is irrational and I think quite immature.
ORITI: The Liberals haven't rushed, so to speak. They haven't actually clarified their stance on The Voice. Do you think there's a chance the Liberal Party could follow the Nationals?
MCCARTHY: Well, I'm sure the Liberal Party will do what it needs to do, but I would say the same as I said, you know, to all politicians of all political persuasions, this is an important time for our country. Be informed before you make any kind of decision. And what the Nationals have done, has made an uninformed decision, and I would urge them to reconsider it.