GREG JENNETT, HOST: Now we might not get to see all of it, but behind the scenes there's a lot going on to consult and to prepare for next year's referendum on the Indigenous voice to Parliament. Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, has been involved in very recent discussions on the proposal. Malarndirri McCarthy joined us a short time ago from Darwin. Why don't we go to the issue of The Voice? I know towards year's end. You've had this meeting as recently as yesterday with Indigenous Affairs Ministers from the states and territories. What have you ascertained about the way that different governments in this country might be moving in parallel, if you like, towards notions similar to the voice in their own jurisdictions?
SENATOR MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY: It was an important meeting of State and Territory Indigenous Affairs Ministers, chaired by our own Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister, Linda Burney, and I was part of that. Many were at the meeting in person, some of us on line and it was an opportunity to hear what was going on as much at the federal level about the voice but also at the state and territory level Greg, as to what each jurisdiction is doing.
JENNETT: Would you draw a conclusion from that? Because they are doing things off their own bat, that when we get to the voice and the referendum question, would you presume that there will be institutional support from each, if not every one of these governments in support of a yes vote?
MCCARTHY: Look, firstly, I'd say that Linda Burney and myself were very appreciative of the all the ministers who attended and certainly their in-principle support for what we're doing at a national level in regards to the voice and the work that we're doing with the engagement group and the working group of the referendum. And of course, we certainly want to keep providing information to state and territory jurisdictions and hope that support will no doubt endure right through the referendum and beyond.
JENNETT: So what can you tell them? Or for that matter, what can you tell us about the working group, which is fashioning essentially the question, isn't it, that goes to the people?
MCCARTHY: Well, we have the two groups. The working group is obviously the group that does advise, certainly the minister and the special envoy for reconciliation and the voice, Senator Dodson and Mark Dreyfus, our Attorney General. So so that working group will meet again next week along with the engagement group, Greg, which is a larger group of over 60 organisations and individuals from across the country. And that will be about the communication process and how we actually outreach across the country to both Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. So it was important to be able to speak to the Indigenous Affairs Ministers about those two working groups, but also the legal group that's looking at this as well that's assisting with both Senator Dodson and Mark Dreyfus. So this was about bringing up to speed each each minister and also recognising that next year is going to be an important year for our country.
JENNETT: I've heard it said, of course, you would want to have as many voters involved in the referendum as is possible. But I've certainly heard a theory put forward that the Yes campaign might be aided by a lower turnout because apathy from those who are against it may not see them turn out. They may not have the conviction to go and vote on it. They might just be softly against the concept. Do you agree with that theory?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think you're going to hear a lot of things, Greg, as we get closer to the referendum. But I certainly from both a personal and professional perspective, know that it's important to get all Australians on the electoral roll, in particular First Nations people. We saw here just with the seat of Lingiari, that we have to get people on the electoral roll and it's important for democracy and effective democracy. Everyone should be out having their say, having their vote.
JENNETT: All right. So when you were last in Canberra, we had that development and politically here in this building, which was the Nats taking a 'no' position whether that proves to be a firm and comprehensive, 'no' position in their own ranks. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Did you at the time or do you now see that as a significant setback for the cause?
MCCARTHY: It was certainly an interesting week for the Nationals to come out at the start of it and really have a very pre-emptive position prior to any real detail information coming from those two working groups that I've already mentioned. So I think they need to actually reflect on what it is they're saying no to. I have to say, though, that there were a number of Nationals who obviously didn't agree with that, Andrew Gee in particular. And then of course in Western Australia with the Nationals there and even the New South Wales Indigenous Affairs Minister spoke about that yesterday at the meeting. In regards to the Nationals in New South Wales. It's been an important discussion but I think on reflection even David Littleproud would have to look at that whole week and think 'yeah, maybe that was a bit too hasty'.
JENNETT: Well, you know Jacinta Price as the co-Territory Senator for the NT, what's your own analysis about the role that she took in guiding her own party room to that position?
MCCARTHY: Well, I think Senator Price has made her position very clear even before coming into parliament. So that was never any surprise. I think what was surprising was that so many of the Nationals bought straight away without really having the conversation with Linda Burney, in particular as the minister responsible, and also Senator Pat Dodson, people that they've worked beside for the last two terms at least. These are very, very strong people who've been in Aboriginal affairs for many decades. And Pat Dodson, who's known as the Father of Reconciliation, I thought it was quite surprising and quite naive really that the Nationals leader hadn't had that conversation with them.
JENNETT: Do you regard Senator Price as well-grounded, well, representative of Indigenous people well either in Central Australia, but I suppose I should ask more broadly across the Territory?
MCCARTHY: Well look, I think we saw with regards to people who spoke out last week, Greg, in particular, those First Nations people here in the Northern Territory who completely disregarded and rejected what Senator Price said, in particular the Central Land Council, which is made up of over 90 representatives and traditional owners from Central Australia who are so passionate about the Uluru statement and were very much a part of that journey. And then of course, Empowered Communities who spoke very strongly from across Australia that the position that Nationals took was not the right position and certainly was not one that should have been taken without any further discussion.
JENNETT: Well, maybe a foretaste of the divergent views that will emerge. They're only just starting out throughout the course of the discussion.
MCCARTHY: That's right. It's only just starting. And naturally, next year will be an enormous year. But I certainly do believe and I'm you know, I walk very strongly and closely with Linda Burney and Pat Dodson on this, that we do believe this is about uniting our country and we will do everything that we can to ensure that our country comes out the better for it.