KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Welcome back to the program. Let's bring in the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. We saw the Teals today, the Independents, they've launched a party. Does it make them more effective in terms of – I guess they're resourcing. It will help them to be a political party, won't it?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: They have never struggled for resources. They have had multimillion-dollar campaigns, election on election. I don't think Zali Steggall has ever had what you would call a ‘cheap’ campaign. They are always pretty top-notch in terms of what they spend. So, I don't know, they've struggled a bit with their recruitment is the thing I found a bit interesting. If I said, 'Kieran, come to a party – I'm hosting a party.' And you came to my place, and you were the only other person there, a party of two is not really a party. It might be a dinner. So, I think they are struggling a bit to get the other Teals into the tent. But there's a lot of egos to manage, so I respect all of that. And then the other thing I found really interesting about it is I actually went and read their constitution, which they did put out. And I give them credit for that. The constitution puts all of the power in the elected members of Parliament. Now, if you join that party, you get zero say. You have nothing. And that's very different to the sort of party that I chose to join when I was a teenager, the Labor Party, where members across the country actually get a say.
GILBERT: So, you join. They might get a t-shirt, but no say.
GORMAN: We get a Teal t-shirt with a new logo. I mean, not very sustainable. They should use the t-shirts from the last campaign, in my view. But –
GILBERT: But is this to get around your – the new donation rules?
GORMAN: These donation rules are really about ending some of the big money in politics. The Australian public recognised that we were seeing ridiculous amounts spent. And billionaires blasting in, spending a hundred million dollars or so on an election campaign. I think people wanted to see serious electoral reform. People can form political parties, that's fine. I just think this is a particularly odd party structure. And I'm not entirely clear whether it's actually about the community, as they say it is, or it's about protecting the individuals who are currently in Parliament.
GILBERT: On the ‘fire the liar’ trucks that were doing laps of Parliament. Are you concerned that this does permanent damage to the credibility of the Prime Minister and the Government? This campaign?
GORMAN: I am not concerned at all. Look, if One Nation wants to hire a couple of trucks and drive them around, that's up to them. I will point out to your viewers that truck drivers in Australia are better off because of the policies that Labor has put in place. Policies that One Nation opposed. Things like 'Same Job Same Pay'. Our safe rates. The work that we've done to make sure we lift minimum and award wages and that flows through the economy. All of those things denied to the truck drivers of Australia under One Nation's vision. And when it comes to even Paid Parental Leave. If a truck driver wants to have some time off from their work, under the One Nation plan, those truck drivers would lose their Paid Parental Leave.
GILBERT: There's a lot of anger though, isn't there, in the community about the Budget that remains?
GORMAN: I think you've seen a range of people note that you always get feedback after any budget is released. There are always people who would like you to have gone further in some areas or not have touched other areas.
GILBERT: Do you concede there's a greater intensity, at the moment, in certain terms of the broken promises. There's a greater heat in the debate at the moment. Is that your sense?
GORMAN: I think in Australia for a number of years now, we have been seeing the temperature and pressure on our communities increase. I do not think that the Budget has been a contributing factor to that. What I would say is that we have treated the Australian people with serious respect and being open about the change we've made and the reason that we had to make it. Because we could not sit as a responsible government and continue to have a housing system that was locking out the next generation.
GILBERT: But if it was respect, why not – wouldn't it be respectful to go to an election with some of those changes?
GORMAN: The last two elections that we have faced as the Australian Labor Party, we have had the biggest housing agendas you've ever seen from a then-opposition and a government. That now totals $47 billion of investment in building new homes. And we had hoped that that would be enough. Serious action on the supply side, but we had to do something about the uneven nature of –
GILBERT: And you genuinely don't think that that damage is permanent?
GORMAN: I think we have treated the Australian people with respect about explaining that we've had a change of view, why we've had that change and talk about the benefits. We have also been really clear that this will benefit tens of thousands of Australians into their first home and help first home buyers, in addition to the 5 per cent deposits, Help to Buy. Help to Buy – another one – all three of those major right-wing parties all opposed.
GILBERT: The 'widow's tax' though – you had to mop up a few things like that. The change that Katy Gallagher has confirmed in the Senate to prevent a widow, or a partner, losing the grandfathering component. Was it just all a bit rushed?
GORMAN: We were really clear about our view about grandfathering the arrangements people had made prior to us announcing these changes. And that is something that we really strongly believe in. And the Prime Minister has confirmed that again today. What Senator Gallagher has said in the Senate is that we want to make sure that where some of those sad or tragic circumstances happen, that it doesn't impact those grandfathering arrangements. That is the right approach. Again, treating the Senate with respect in terms of working through those matters. That is what we've done. It is what we'll continue to do.
GILBERT: I'll let you get to the House of Reps. Thanks for making the time.
GORMAN: Thank you.