TOM CONNELL, HOST: Joining me now is Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. A little bit embarrassing for Labor that your policy has sort of been stalled for a while. We're ready and waiting. We can get the chicken or beef for Tony Burke at the Press Club whenever he's ready, but nothing doing?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: I am not entirely sure what your question is there, Tom? If your suggestion is –
CONNELL: Well, One Nation have rolled out a policy, and you guys have been trying to agree on one for the last month –
GORMAN: Well, hang on. One Nation have issued a five-paragraph press release. That is not a policy. There is not a single costing. No economic modelling. They say there are these big cuts that will be like a Covid-style economic shock to the country. But there is not a policy there. Let us not pretend there is. And anyone who suggests that One Nation has actually put out a comprehensive policy today would be completely wrong.
CONNELL: Let's go through the broad elements – what they spoke about then. Cutting students back. There has been a big increase in students in recent years. Is it fair to say that the current level of 156,000 - was the last full year intake - paring back from that is perfectly possible.
GORMAN: We put settings in place two years ago around reducing the number of international students and at the same time lifting up standards, including lifting up English language standards. But again, Senator Hanson hasn't actually outlined what it is that she will do. She has issued a five paragraph, nine sentence press release. It is one of the reasons that the president of the National Farmers’ Federation had this one-word answer about this policy. Said it was “terrible.” No detail, but really clearly a wrecking ball through regional Australia.
CONNELL: Okay, so on the total number of students now, it is fair to say it could get – are you saying 100,000 is too low a number for the sector?
GORMAN: What we have done is –
CONNELL: But I'm asking about not what you've done, but would going down to 100,000 be too low a number for the sector?
GORMAN: I am comfortable with the settings that we've got, and we've had in Budgets for the last few years. I am not sure – I don't know exactly how many regional international students Senator Hanson is planning to axe. But I am very concerned that there is no indication they have consulted with regional universities. Not even the University of New England, in the Treasury spokesperson for One Nation's own seat. No consultation there. It is pretty concerning stuff. And we can't let this be the standard of political debate in Australia. Where this tiny press release is somehow given the credibility of being a fully-costed policy on something as important as migration.
CONNELL: What about having the current ability for students to bring out family members? Is that too generous at a time when you have to scour immigration to make sure it's, you know, the best fit for possible for our economy - but lowering it? Is that now too generous?
GORMAN: International student visas are for international students. And they are for international students to come here and buy a product from us. That is, we get the benefit of international students purchasing education products from universities, including from universities in my electorate. And we get the benefit of those international students having some work rights to support cafes, a range of small businesses across the nation. When it comes to family reunion, that is a privilege for international students to have their family be able to come here for short periods of time. And of course, like any other part of that sort of temporary part of the migration system, that's always under ongoing review, as it is under any government.
CONNELL: Okay, so that could be a target for you as well?
GORMAN: Look, again, our migration policies –
CONNELL: Might go to the sort of onshore, offshore – applying for them, for example?
GORMAN: Again, when it comes to international students, we did put some harder requirements that students needed to actually have an enrolment to apply for an international student visa, not just an offer. So, we did put some more stringent requirements there. We also put in pretty strong requirements when it comes to international education providers, such as Edith Cowan University in my electorate - on top of Perth CityLink, a project championed by the Prime Minister. We have got requirements on them that if they want to have more international students, they have to build more international student accommodation.
CONNELL: Okay. What about overstays, finally? Is it time for a tougher approach? That has been a big blowout. It's not so much just the arrivals, but the departures have dropped.
GORMAN: My view is if you come to Australia, you play by Australian rules. That means –
CONNELL: But the problem is the rules allow now you to visa hop, to wait years. Some would say part of the problem is being able to work the whole time, spurious applications for asylum visas. So, it's not so much people breaking the rules. The bigger issue is what the rules are.
GORMAN: Look, and would always expect that any visitor to our nation acts in good faith. And where that's not happening, of course, we already have processes for the Australian Government to assert our view that people shouldn't abuse our migration system. But again, I'm very conscious that all of our policies are in successive Budgets, the five Budgets that we've handed down. Senator Hanson issued a five-paragraph media release this morning. No costings. Not a single costing. Where are they –
CONNELL: When we talk to One Nation representatives, well, I certainly ask them about costings and modelling.
GORMAN: Where are they? What do they say? What is the excuse?
CONNELL: It'll be out in the election. Let me ask you very quickly –
GORMAN: [Inaudible]. But let's just be clear. Senator Hanson has been in this Parliament on and off for 30 years, always talking about migration. I would have thought when we got to the final reveal of her policy, we would have something more than half a press release.
CONNELL: Still getting used to being a major party. Anyway, I'm not here to make excuses, but I'm saying perhaps that's why it is. But we'll keep asking as well. Just quickly, private health insurance, so, this getting rid of the extra rebate – half the savings coming from pensioners. Are they the right people to target right now?
GORMAN: We have a range of supports for health care for pensioners, including the support that we provide through the cheaper medicines policy, which we've also frozen –
CONNELL: But is it accurate? Private health insurance – half the savings come from pensioners. That private health insurance change, is that right?
GORMAN: There has been a range of information released from Minister Butler. I am not aware of the particular modelling that you're referring to. I am very happy to get people to follow up and answer that question in detail, but –
CONNELL: Or at estimates now?
GORMAN: Well, in which case it should go to the Secretary of the Health Department.
CONNELL: So, that's where I've got to put my query now?
GORMAN: Well, got to get yourself elected to the Senate first, Tom. You can't ask questions at Senate Estimates, but –
CONNELL: But you're saying, I ask them at estimates, okay.
GORMAN: I was saying, I'm happy –
CONNELL: I thought you were saying you’re brushing me off.
GORMAN: No, no, I was saying I'm not aware of the particular document that you got that question from. I am happy to get you more information, as I always seek to do. Give me a couple of hours –
CONNELL: [Inaudible] Like your old boss, Kevin Rudd?
GORMAN: Always.
CONNELL: Patrick Gorman. Thank you.