KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: With me live in the studio is the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Thanks for your time.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Kieran.
GILBERT: Your leader, Mr. Albanese, is adamant this is the right call and that he is a welcome guest to this country?
GORMAN: It was the right call and he is a welcome guest. I wish we did not have to extend that invitation. As you just said, it came in the face of a horrific antisemitic terrorist attack which killed 15 people and has hurt the community so much more broadly across the country. I was fortunate to welcome President Herzog to Australia on Monday morning. We have got a range of people engaging in this visit. We have seen the footage as well, where not only is he arriving at Government House, but he has also been meeting with members of the Jewish community in Sydney. It is, in the scheme of guests of government visits, it is a solemn visit and that is because of the context in which it happens. And I just remind all Australians to remember that while they may express their views at peaceful protest, it is important we remember the sad reason that this visit has happened.
GILBERT: And indeed, and if it provides some comfort, some solace, to the community that has been devastated by that appalling atrocity on the shores of Bondi beach. Well then that is a good thing.
GORMAN: The devastation of the Jewish community in Australia goes from the shores of Bondi Beach to the shores of Cottesloe Beach in Western Australia. I have got a large Jewish community in my electorate. The hurt is real. There is obviously serious concern amongst the Jewish community about, you know, some of the views that have been expressed at some of these protests over the last few days. And I just encourage everyone, wherever we can, bring the temperature down. Find a way to talk through difference. We do not come to a shared understanding by yelling at each other. We come to a shared understanding by talking to one another.
GILBERT: Indeed. We have got the pictures that you can see there from Government House in the corner of your screen. The Israeli flag there. The welcome from one Head of State, that being the Governor-General, to the Israeli Head of State in Isaac Herzog. They are going to sign the visitors’ book. They'll inspect the guard there, the military guard of honour, and then they will have some conversations. A meeting there at Government House between the Governor-General, the President and our Prime Minister. Is this a moment where you hope Australia and Israel can also start to heal the bilateral relationship which has been damaged really over the last year or two?
GORMAN: We have a long-standing diplomatic relationship with Israel. That goes back to the period where we both voted for the creation of the modern state of Israel and established diplomatic connections following World War II. It is important that we can have dialogue, we can express where there are different views around very important foreign policy matters, but also talk about the things that we do seek to do together into the future. Now, I also would not mind sharing with your viewers that one of the people - I understand he will be at Government House a little bit later today - is the senior Australian of the Year, Henry Brodaty. He is an amazing dementia care and brain expert. A professor who has done so much to help with how we deal with that horrible disease. He is also the son of two Holocaust survivors, and I am really pleased to say that he will be there not just sharing his outstanding world leading research, but also his family’s story.
GILBERT: That's a reminder, isn't it? Of the wonderful contribution that Jewish Australians have made to this nation for -
GORMAN: From Federation.
GILBERT: From Federation and before. This is a wonderful community in this nation.
GORMAN: It goes all the way back to our first parliament. We had Isaac Isaacs sitting in the parliament, who went on to serve in the High Court and made an incredible contribution to Australia. And if we think about those contributions that we see to this very day, and I see it in my community in Perth, we should celebrate those contributions of a country that has welcomed so many from so many different parts of the world - all who come here not just for a better life for themselves, but a better life for their families, and recognising they can make a contribution to the community as well.
GILBERT: The thing that frustrates many in the Jewish community, and I think many Australians across the board - the mainstream, for want of a better phrase - is that Jewish Australians for some reason are held to account or blamed by some individuals and some groups. Quoting Zionists and so on, for the actions of a foreign government. When do you see Australians of Iranian descent or other nationalities blamed for the regime in their - in foreign nations? It doesn't happen.
GORMAN: It does not, and it should not happen. And Jewish Australians should not be targeted for the actions of a democratically elected government in another nation. Simple as that. It does sadden me when you see some of that, and obviously, we have seen too many inappropriate and, at times, antisemitic attacks on Jewish Australians. We have to keep calling that out when it does happen. We have got to recognise that when it comes to the Government of Israel, that is a democratically elected government; you know, there are obviously a range of things happening in the democratic processes in Israel. I would not want to see an Australian abroad attacked because of the decisions of the democratically elected government here in Australia. I want to see them afforded - we are all Australian.
GILBERT: Indeed. No, I totally agree and in fact could not agree more. That it is a time of civility but also a time of respect and respect for a community that is mourning. And I just see a lack of both of those things in actions of recent days, sadly. I want to ask you about the poll today. The Sky News Pulse conducted by YouGov. One Nation's primary vote is 28, just 2 points behind Labor now. That is extraordinary, isn't it? And in fact, One Nation is ahead of Labor among working class voters. What do you make of that?
GORMAN: What I make of it is, I think it is going to bring greater scrutiny to the role that One Nation is playing in Australian political life. What we have got at the moment across the right-wing spectrum of political debate is, you have got this sort of Coalition of chaos.
GILBERT: Will you bear with me one second, I just want to have a listen in Assistant Minister. Let's have a listen into the audio here from Government House.
[Clip plays]
GILBERT: Prime Minister Albanese there, along with Governor-General Moston, welcoming President Herzog. A ceremonial welcome at Government House as he now accompanies that officer to inspect the military guard on the lawns of Yarralumla. It is a beautiful summer day to welcome the Israeli President here on this official visit. It'll be followed by an official lunch, whereas various dignitaries will be there. As Patrick Gorman mentioned to us earlier. Including the Senior Australian of the Year, the esteemed dementia researcher, among many other Australians, many members of the Jewish community, representatives of that much loved community in Australia and Isaac Herzog, as the Prime Minister has said repeatedly, ‘he's an honoured guest in this country’. We've got Pat Gorman with us, the Assistant Minister to the PM, and it's a moment in time where we've had difficulties, obviously the recognition of the State of Palestine was not well received by Israel - criticism from Benjamin Netanyahu and others. But it should be the only democracy in the Middle East, a very close friendship with our nation.
GORMAN: And I think long standing, people to people links between Israel and Australia. I know that in my own electorate we have had previous members of the Israeli Labor Party out talking to the Jewish community. There is strong links and I think they are stronger than any differences that may exist from time to time. Obviously, we make foreign policy in Australia's national interest. We have a long-standing commitment to a two state solution in the Middle East. We see that that is both in the security interests of the people of Israel and a legitimate interest and aspiration for the Palestinian people. We can be involved in that dialogue. We do not want to be, you know, shouting on only one side or the other. We want to be part of the dialogue to get an outcome over time. That was part of what we did last year when we were part of the international push for a ceasefire. Because we saw that that was going to improve the security situation for everyone in the region.
GILBERT: The NSW Opposition Leader, Kellie Sloane, yesterday said something with Laura Jayes, where she said, the people of NSW, the NSW police ‘have had a gutful’ of the conflicts being brought here in terms of whether it be the horrific violence in the terrorist attack, but beyond that and the clashes with police, they've 'had a gutful'. She probably is reflecting the view of a lot of Australians as we go back to that One Nation vote. People have had a gutful. Would you agree with that?
GORMAN: I do not think people want to see disagreements brought here to Australia. We recognise there is a right for people to have peaceful protests. But also, there is an important role that police play when those protests are happening, the police play an important role in protecting community safety. It is also a right of the Australian people to expect that when they are going about their day, they are safe from what can sometimes become quite heated protests, and they are just able to go about their day. And the police have to balance out those two things. Right to protest and right to community safety. Sometimes they are put in incredibly difficult positions. I just thank our police officers and protesters and protest organisers who seek to also make sure their communities are kept safe.
GILBERT: The president there shaking hands with the speaker, other dignitaries, Sussan Ley, the Liberal leader, maybe in the last days of her leadership, who knows? But Patrick Gorman, that if it eventuates, would be the result of exactly what we were talking about before. If she is rolled - those numbers and One Nation surging to 28%. Sorry to interrupt you before, but if you reflect on that now, that's seismic, isn't it? If that were to hold up at an election.
GORMAN: I think we have seen polls before which will show the One Nation vote coming up during the term and then not really delivering on election day. But I do think it is time for a bit more scrutiny on One Nation, and I think that is a job that, for some reason, the Liberal Party do not want to do. For some reason, the National Party do not want to do. That is probably because they are looking at a world where they would possibly seek to either form an opposition or, one day in the future, form a government where Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce are part of that Coalition. We have seen, just in the last few weeks, how unstable the Liberal–National Coalition is. Why you would add another unstable element of One Nation into that Coalition of chaos, I do not know. It does bother me that you do not see much pushback from One Nation these days from the National Party or the Liberal Party. They seem to accept that they are now bedfellows for the rest of their political lives. So, I think it is going to be up to Labor to put more of the heat on One Nation for the decisions they have made over time. I have got with me here some of the bills that One Nation have voted against in just the last few years. They voted against cheaper medicines. So, we want to talk about One Nation - they wanted people's medicines to be more expensive. They voted against help to buy, which is modelled on a program of shared equity that has worked in Western Australia for almost 40 years, helping 120,000 people into their own homes. And they voted against same job, same pay, simply about getting people the same pay as the people they are working next to. One Nation do not have any solutions for the Australian people. They are always voting against cost of living measures that we have brought forward, and now they are seeking to deal themselves in into a long-term partnership with the Liberals and the Nationals.
GILBERT. So, with Labor's vote though - as the ceremonial welcome continues for Isaac Herzog and Governor-General Mostyn there as well, we're hearing further anthems being played there now, including the Israeli anthem - I just want to stay with you on this though. Because it goes to the whole question about the two party system. Is Labor potentially at risk here, from One Nation as well?
GORMAN: I only had three other candidates against me at the last election, Kieran. One of them was One Nation. We fought One Nation in elections for 30 years. I think we are coming up on the 30 year anniversary of Pauline Hanson coming into Australian political life. Helped in by the Liberal Party, let us not forget. It was the Liberal Party in Queensland who first put her on the ballot. And that is how Pauline Hanson got her start in political life. But when it comes to the contest, I am very comfortable talking to electorates across the country about the fact that in those 30 years, One Nation have not put forward a single solution to any of the problems that they talk about. Sitting here, I do not think you can name a single achievement that One Nation have had in 30 years. I do not think your viewers can name a single actual policy achievement that One Nation have achieved in those 30 years. And that is the problem when you have got a party that is purely of protest and has no actual purpose.
GILBERT: Patrick Gorman, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, thank you very much for that.