TOM CONNELL, HOST: Joining me for the first time this year, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman and former Liberal MP Jason Falinski. Thank you both, as ever, for your time. I'm sure, a pretty moving and sad day, frankly, in the Parliament. Patrick, what's really stuck with you? Reading accounts on the days since December 14th?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: I think what stuck with me is, firstly, the speeches that we have seen in the Parliament, have been some of the best and most heartfelt speeches I have seen in my time in this building. People who have clearly engaged deeply on the questions of what we confront as a nation, but also have connected at a really human level with the Jewish community, not just in Bondi, but across Australia. And we saw that on show in the Parliament today, including with the minute silence for the condolence for the victims of this horrific antisemitic terror attack which has changed our nation.
CONNELL: Jason, you're someone whose grandparents and father fled antisemitism in what was Polish or USSR controlled Poland after the Second World War, during the Cold War. How are the conversations you're having now with Jewish Australians on how they feel it is to be in Australia these days?
JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: Well, Tom, deeply unpleasant, to be honest. I think that a lot of people who woke up, you know, that night when the terror attacks occurred. It was a shocking event to be happening in Australia. That's not something that we had ever conceived of or believed would happen. And for the Jewish community in the eastern suburbs, it is truly a shocking event because while memories of that, of antisemitism, of that sort of discrimination and that violence based on nothing more than what religion you choose to practice is something that is not even a generation old and was something that people fled, not something that people were coming to. So, for our country to have moved from where it was, to where we have to recognise it is today, is something that is deeply shocking, I think, for all of us, but particularly for that community.
CONNELL: It's obviously, right now, impossible to know what might have prevented the attack, Patrick. And you know, we've got the Royal Commission, we've got the other report into this as well. But wouldn't it be simple enough for the Prime Minister to say that the Segal report was sitting there for months, it wasn't acted upon, it should have been?
GORMAN: We have acted on that report. And before that report, there are a range of actions the Government had taken: banning of Nazi symbols, a range of additional security measures that we'd put in place since we came to office. But we do need to wait for those reports. One of the reasons that we have attached the Richardson review into the Royal Commission is so we can get fast advice to government so that we can act before the budget this year. But I also think people who have been watching over the last few days would note that there is a determination from this Government to act. But we do have to deal with the realities of what we can get through the Parliament. And that is not always an easy path. And you have seen some of that in the last 48 hours.
CONNELL: And that might have happened. But these attempts, this sort of legislation, it was recommended in a report that was sitting there, handed down before the attacks were carried out. That's reality. Surely, it would show to Jewish Australians, for example, that Anthony Albanese, you know, won't repeat that lapse, I suppose, in the future if he says yes, that was clearly a mistake, which we haven't heard yet.
GORMAN: And what we know is, in that report that you refer to Tom, one of the recommendations was a recommendation that the Coalition themselves have ruled out supporting. So, we have to deal in the art of the possible. That is what I am doing. That is what the Prime Minister's doing. As we take responsibility for what the nation needs from the Australian Government in response to this vile, horrific, antisemitic terrorist attack and will continue to take action both what is clearly in front of the Parliament right now, and I am very optimistic about what we can get through the Parliament tomorrow. But also in the weeks, months and years ahead to continue to respond. Because as we have seen in the Parliament over the course of the speeches this morning - this afternoon, the horrors of antisemitism and vile hatred towards the Jewish people is not new. It is something that unfortunately, many parliaments have had to combat for years and years, including one of my predecessors in the seat of Perth, Joe Berinson, who was a great leader in the Jewish community in the electorate of Perth, elected to the Federal Parliament. He was battling these issues in the Parliament and in the community in the 1960s. We need to keep up the fight, keep acting, because that is the only thing that will give us the welcoming, cohesive society we want.
CONNELL: 'Small L' Liberal that you are, Jason, how do you feel about hate speech versus freedom of speech?
FALINSKI: Well, I, Tom, I've always come down on the side of free speech. I have great concern about hate speech. I would point out that we had hate speech laws in place, being section 18C, and still this atrocity occurred. There are a couple of things that I would like to say. One is that, while we keep talking about this as violence against Jewish Australians, we are segregating that violence and that terror. An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us, and that is really critical. And I think of all the excellent speeches that Patrick referred to in the House today, the one that was exceptionally good was Julian Leeser’s. Where he made the point that there are three groups that have both enabled and encouraged this sort of division and hate, and they are obviously neo-Nazis, radical Muslim clerics, but also the cultural left in this country. We have just gone through a week of the Adelaide Writers Festival where someone who, quite frankly, has spewed hate, was disinvited to that festival. We saw what the cultural left did. No one that I'm aware of in the Labor Party has called out that, indeed, some very prominent journalists supported that. And I find it difficult to understand, even in this moment, if we can't have agreement on that, then really what this is not about is laws and regulations and enforcement. This is about moral leadership that has to come and it has to start in the House of Representatives. And I think Julian started that today. And it's a speech that I encourage everyone to read.
CONNELL: Where do you sit on that, Patrick? Have you been watching those goings on and you have a view on the cancellation and the response to it?
GORMAN: I think on a day like today where the Parliament's got important work in front of it, I am going to focus on that work. When it comes to the speeches, I was in the chamber for Julian Leeser’s speech. I think he had some important contributions to make. I am not looking, today, for reasons to divide amongst the Parliament. I think what we had at the start of Parliament today was the Parliament coming together with a very clear statement. I think that was an important thing and it is an important tone to carry through as we work through differences on how we best legislate our response. But I think we do need to get action this week. That is what the Australian Community are looking to this Parliament for and that is what I am focused on.
CONNELL: Alright, before we go, we had the news earlier this hour. The sad news of Tim Picton, a Labor strategist, long time Labor strategist at the age of 36 has died in hospital. He's been in intensive care for the past three weeks. He was allegedly assaulted outside of a Perth nightclub. Obviously, this is something still going before the courts with his alleged assailants. So, we're wary on that element of it. But he led WA Labor to that landslide victory in 2021. You knew him, Patrick. Such sad news. 36, a four-year-old daughter, Charlotte - never see her dad again.
GORMAN: There is heartbreak not just in the WA Labor family and those who worked closely with Tim, but across the entire Australian Labor Party. Thirty-six years old, someone who contributed so much not just to the Labor Party, which he loved, but also to creating jobs for others in the mining industry through his work with Mineral Resources. It is heartbreaking for Tim's family, and I pass on my condolences to them. And the circumstances are tragic and completely unacceptable that anyone experienced that violence. I think on a day like this, as you scratch to see if you can find the positive in any of this senseless and horrific violence that has taken someone, a friend from us. I just think that his legacy lives on in two amazing governments that he helped elect. The McGowan and now Cook Government is there. And outstanding individuals are in Parliament and in ministerial roles because of Tim Picton's work. Similar, I have got colleagues in the parliament who I would not have if it were not for Tim Picton. And Western Australia was an incredible part of that win in 2022. And I pay tribute that in a life that was cut far too short, there was enormous contribution. Just to everyone who knew and loved Tim, it is a tragically sad day.
CONNELL: You see that picture of his wife and his little girl really brings it home. Patrick, Jason, thank you.