TOM CONNELL, HOST: Joining me now is Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Is this, if you believe that we need to act on climate, net zero, is this bad for the country? Do you hope the Coalition stays with you on this, or politically, does it help you if they move away from it?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: What I want to see is action on climate change. I think your viewers, and the Australian public at large, saw the climate wars over more than a decade, where there was to-ing and fro-ing on climate action. What we have had over the last three years is a steady path when it comes to net zero, clear policies to implement that action plan, and up until the election, we had some begrudging level of support, at least, for the idea of climate action through the Paris Agreement, which Tony Abbott signed Australia up to. What we are seeing now is a real weakness of leadership from the real top of the Liberal Party. You have got senior Liberals across this parliament, both the Senate and the House of Representatives, seeking to undermine the position the Liberal Party has held for a period of time. But the leadership of the Liberal Party is absolutely silent, and I think that says a lot about just how much disagreement there is within the Liberal Party.
CONNELL: We have the UN climate diplomat, top UN climate diplomat, alleging a really strong and ambitious target. Is that the path you'll go down? Or you said, steady, there? Is that too radical for Labor?
GORMAN: We have already got our plans that are getting us to a 43% emissions reduction by 2030. That is significant progress. We will take advice from the climate authority. That is the process that we go through. We are awaiting that advice, and of course, they are looking at international developments. We will continue to wait for that advice. But we know that Australia, not just Australia's obligations that we have signed up to under Prime Minister Abbott, but our opportunities all lie in continuing to walk the path to net zero, and why Liberals want to walk away from that, including Senator Michaelia Cash and West Australian Andrew Hastie, I think it is more about their internal politics than it is about the national interest.
CONNELL: 2035 target not too far away, we think. Wanted to ask about Gaza. I'm getting a sense from Labor and the Prime Minister, and perhaps you disagree, let me put this to you; is it your view that Israel's reason for the lack of aid not getting in is unacceptable, is not plausible?
GORMAN: Our view is that the outcome of aid not getting to innocent civilians who are caught up in this conflict is unacceptable. And when you had that decision in March to stop the flow of aid, and when we are talking about aid, we are talking about really basic food and water supplies to innocent civilians, including children, we want to see that aid get through. Because -
CONNELL: When Israel says that aid is getting hijacked or it could go to Hamas and others, is that an unacceptable or not plausible explanation?
GORMAN: What we know is that there are obligations, even during periods of wartime or conflict. There are obligations to innocent civilians, and we want to uphold those obligations, and we want to see Israel meet -
CONNELL: So, they are breaking international law at the moment, in your view?
GORMAN: Others will make those judgments about international law, and there are courts that make those determinations. What I think is that you do not need to be, and most Australians aren't, international law experts. But they are humanitarian, they are compassionate -
CONNELL: But the PM is in the breach of law. Should he have waited for a court outcome, as you alluded to?
GORMAN: The prime minister also noted that it is not a decision that Australia makes. But he noted that international law says that it is an obligation to ensure the flow of aid and food for civilians who are caught up in a conflict. I stand by that. The Prime Minister stands by that. And what we want to see, really simply is, again, it does not matter if you are just an ordinary Australian - and you see the images that are coming out, you see the impact of what is happening when children cannot get the basic supplies they need - you do not have to be an international lawyer to know that it is wrong that children are not getting the food and supplies they need for being caught up in a war, that they are innocent children.
CONNELL: Would recognising Palestine have to be a party room decision?
GORMAN: When it comes to our position, we do want to see a lasting two-state solution. We see that the recognition of Palestine could be part of the process, the recognition of Palestine -
CONNELL: [inaudible] Is that a Party room or could that be a Cabinet decision?
GORMAN: When it comes to foreign policy matters, I think your viewers know, that those decisions are guided by the views of the Party, but ultimately, our decisions of -
CONNELL: You don't think the party room will [inaudible] with you on that?
GORMAN: - consecutive Governments [inaudible] -
CONNELL: - given how sensitive it is.
GORMAN: I think what we know is already we have got a really clear position, which is, that we want to -
CONNELL: But this is what I'm saying, this different position, to shift to that. Do you think the Party room and some back benchers would actually want a say in that or is it just fine to go through Cabinet as a foreign affairs policy?
GORMAN: I think our policy position, that is, that we believe in the future recognition of a Palestinian state. That is what we would like to see happen. We see that as being part of a peace process, not the final step of a peace process. Minister Penny Wong -
CONNELL: This is my point here, changing it. But anyway, you've given your answer. YouTube, just clarify what this ban would be. Any viewing of any YouTube videos for under-16s?
GORMAN: The advice has been given from the eSafety Commissioner to Minister Wells. We have been open that, that advice has been received. It has been considered. What our social media ban, a world leading ban that we have put in place, we legislated at the end of last year. What that is about is saying that social media platforms cannot register users younger than 16 years of age.
CONNELL: But this is arguably, not primarily, a social media platform. So can a teacher show a class of 14 year olds some woodwork techniques, if it's a YouTube video?
GORMAN: I think we all know that teachers can show content to students that is in the interest of their education. What this is about is account holders, and again, when it comes to the specifics of whether or not YouTube is included, we have received some views from the eSafety Commissioner. The Minister is considering that. But what I also want is that, we will make decisions in the Australian national interest. We are not going to make decisions because of legal threats from some American company. We will make decisions in the Australian National interest to protect kids from real and serious online harms that they can face.
CONNELL: Patrick Gorman, thanks for your time.
GORMAN: Thanks Tom.