TRUDY MCINTOSH, HOST: We're joined by our usual political panel. Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, will be joined by Liberal MP, Jason - former Liberal MP I should say - Jason Falinski, in a moment. But Pat to start with you, can you distil for our viewers - why shouldn't Australia have a Royal Commission into the biggest terror attack we've seen?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: As the Prime Minister and others have said, Trudy, after the horrible events at Port Arthur, we did not see a federal Royal Commission. We did not see a federal Royal Commission after the Lindt Cafe Siege. What we did see, however, was bipartisanship. What most Australians would like to see now is a bit more bipartisanship. That is what we are seeking. When it comes to the Royal Commission that the New South Wales Government have announced, we will assist with that. I think people who followed these things over the years, know that Royal Commissions do take a long period of time and then can risk delaying action. We want to unite the country, but also to act on the things that need to be done right now. Dennis Richardson's review, that we announced a number of days ago now, will ensure we get fast, clear recommendations. Now you will not find a better Australian to do that work than Dennis Richardson, and for those who have worked with him over the years know that he tells it to you straight. He will not resile from giving exactly the advice he thinks of what the Australian Government needs to do to make sure that all of our national security agencies can do what is needed to keep Australians safe. That is the path we have chosen -
MCINTOSH: But Pat, no one is doubting that Dennis Richardson will be able to do this law enforcement review. That can be done and that can be done fast. But is it cherry picking to point to Port Arthur and the Lindt Cafe Siege as two examples? Think of the other two examples we've had in your term of government: a Royal Commission into Robodebt, a Royal Commission into veteran suicide. It seems to me that this would be worthy as well, that you can do both things.
GORMAN: What we have chosen to do is to act. That is what we are doing. We can act by assisting the New South Wales Royal Commission, and we can act by making sure that we get recommendations as soon as possible, in addition to the extensive parliamentary work that the Prime Minister has already outlined that will take us into 2026. I do not want any of those measures to be delayed by a Royal Commission. We have seen that when it comes to aged care - delaying responses - we have seen that in other Royal Commissions. I want to get things done, and I want to get the legislative responses that are so clearly needed following this horrific antisemitic terrorist attack. I want to get those legislative responses into the Parliament as soon as possible. I do not want any more delay.
MCINTOSH: Jason Falinski, do you think a federal Royal Commission would necessarily mean that there is delay?
JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: No Trudy, I don't. And look, I respect Pat immensely, but I've got to say that this government has had Royal Commissions into the UN oil-for-food, institutional child sex abuse, banking and financial services, aged care quality, disability abuse and neglect, Robodebt, veteran suicide. All of those, arguably did not need Royal Commissions. However, this one really does, and it really needs to be at a federal level, because as much as the New South Wales Government might have a Royal Commission, it is the interaction between national security agencies and state law enforcement agencies that I think will be the most interesting question to come out of this. Because the two alleged gunmen, one of whom is now dead, left a whole series of breadcrumbs leading up to this attack. So either there was a failure to see those breadcrumbs, or a failure to communicate those breadcrumbs, or those two things were done and the New South Wales Police didn't act on them. And a Royal Commission by the New South Wales Government cannot get to the bottom of that adequately, I think for all Australians. I respect Dennis Richardson immensely, I agree with what the Federal Government is doing here. If there are some immediate holes that we need to plug, we should. But what's already become clear is that the New South Wales Police Force, potentially, was not actually enforcing the gun laws that we currently have. We have the New South Wales Parliament sitting at the moment, introducing yet more gun laws when, for whatever reason, the ones we have at the moment weren't enforced. So that, I think, for the public, is the bigger question.
MCINTOSH: And Pat, just wonder at the moment, does it - for an everyday Australian watching on to this, they might be wondering to themselves, why does it seem like the Prime Minister doesn't want to change his mind here? This is a direct call coming from so many within the Jewish community, to say the very least. Is this a matter now that he's painted himself into a rhetorical corner that to agree to one now, would mean you'd have to backflip on what he's already said?
GORMAN: What the Australian people have seen from the Prime Minister is a determination from the night of this horrific antisemitic terrorist attack, and every day since, is a determination to do what needs to be done. To respond in a fast and effective way to the horrific circumstances in which our nation finds ourselves. And that means we have had some ten meetings of the National Security Committee, a body that can actually make decisions that keep Australians safe. We have had the Cabinet meeting yesterday outlining a range of additional actions that will be taken. We have had all of the legislative responses that we have put forward. We have had the Government respond to the Special Envoy for Combating Antisemitism's report. All of these things are about acting to do what Australia needs right now. Now I have seen some of the proposals that are floating around for terms of reference for Royal Commissions. The one that has been sponsored by the Leader of the Opposition would see years and years of work. I know what the Australian people want us to do. They want us to act, and they want their political leaders to act with a level of bipartisanship. They want people to be able to come together and get things done. That is what we were all elected to do, whatever party we come from, and that is what we have the opportunity to do as legislators next year.
MCINTOSH: Picking up on that Jason, the Prime Minister, day by day, appearing to be more frustrated with the fact that there hasn't been a consistent bipartisanship over the last week, that there's been a continual line of attack against him. Does the Coalition need to be careful in how it calibrates its language?
FALINSKI: All community leaders need to be careful in how they calibrate their language, especially after attacks of this nature. That's not just something to the Opposition, that's something for everyone involved in our community. I wonder if Scott Morrison was as frustrated when he got blamed for every natural disaster that happened under his watch by Anthony Albanese. I mean it is a bit rich for the now Prime Minister to criticise others for undertaking tactics that he deployed when people were simply trying to get urgent care to people who'd been impacted by floods like in Lismore. But I mean, he has questions to answer. I mean, Trudy, he can't run away just because he demands bipartisanship from answering a question about why ASIO and ASIS were removed from the National Security cabinet while the head of the climate change authority was elevated to that. You know, what impact did that have on risk assessment? To call for bipartisanship, because people are asking legitimate questions, is - I actually think, is an abrogation of his duty as a leader in the country at this time.
MCINTOSH: I want to switch gears now. The Prime Minister today also confirmed changes to travel rules for politicians. This was the saga that was engulfing the Parliament before the Bondi attack. Tighter rules now when it comes to family reunions - is this a concession, finally Pat, that the Prime Minister understands that the rules did not meet community expectations?
GORMAN: The Prime Minister outlined a little while ago that he had sought advice from the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority about what might be appropriate to make sure the system works for members of parliament, especially those with young families. I am a MP from Perth. My eldest was only nine months old when I was first elected. I used some of those supports to make sure that I could do my parenting responsibilities and represent my community, and I appreciate that is part of the system. We took the advice from the IPEA, and we have now reached out to the Remuneration Tribunal. They are the decision maker here. They have the legislative powers to change these rules. We are looking at doing some really practical things; making sure that family reunion travel is only to Canberra. It is only in economy class, and also that where there might be spouses joining Ministers and senior office holders for specific events, that that is only happening where there is an invitation to the spouse, and it is connected to that senior office holder's responsibilities. I think that makes a bit of sense. I think, of course, we will both see what the Remuneration Tribunal say in response to that. But this is the right way forward.
MCINTOSH: Yeah, it seems like these changes, not before time. Jason Falinski, Pat Gorman, always appreciate you fronting up. I'm sure Tom Connell sends the same. He does enjoy this panel as much as I do. Thanks so much. Merry Christmas.