ATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Aaron Violi, is a Liberal MP for Casey. Patrick Gorman, Assistant Minister for Employment, and joins us now from Perth. Welcome to both of you. We're waiting for the Prime Minister, but let's just reflect, if we can for a moment on what is really a historic trip in many ways. Aaron, your side of politics has been a little critical, talking about needing to raise concerns too. But the Prime Minister has consistently said he will have those difficult conversations. What do you make of the way that this trip has happened so far?
AARON VIOLI, MEMBER FOR CASEY: Well, it's really important that we always get the balance right. I mean, there is no doubt that there are strong economic benefits of our relationship with China and I represent the beautiful Yarra Valley. Tourism and wineries are a big part of of our community, and my community, so it's important that we continue to grow that market. Although my industry and community have learned to diversify across the world after some of the actions of the CCP previously. It's important that we can always have frank conversations, put our national interest at the forefront and also raise concerns we have, whether it's human rights - I mean, we've seen, even today, reports of journalists and camera people being impacted. So we need to make sure that we do put our national interests first, while understanding the important economic relationship we have with China.
KARVELAS: Yeah, that was a report that I just put to my previous guests. So I'll bring you in, Patrick, for a broad take. But also, if you could reflect on those scenes we saw where those journalists were, security demanded that their footage be handed over. It ended up being settled, but it was a little bit of a disturbing moment, I think.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Firstly, on the Prime Minister's visit, I will just say this is incredibly important. We know that one in four Australian jobs rely on trade. Here in the great state of Western Australia some 60,000 people are employed in the iron ore industry. These are things that matter to Australians in their day-to-day lives, because it's about jobs and it's about our economic future. I think what we have seen from the Prime Minister is that he is looking at not just the opportunities of today, but the opportunities of tomorrow, when it comes to things like green steel. He mentioned medical technology will be part of his agenda tomorrow. There is a lot there, and a lot that we can gain from cooperation. When it comes to the footage you refer to - and I've just heard that on your programme, Patricia. Obviously, we have very different political systems, very different. We know that where there are different systems, there are different approaches. We here in Australia, believe in a free, robust press. That is what we have always advocated for, and it is why we make sure that we have that ability for the press to ask any question you wish of myself or Aaron or anyone else. I cannot comment on specifically what has happened in Beijing, but it does sound like our embassy officials did an excellent job, as they always do.
KARVELAS: They're pretty good, and you're right, we can ask what we like. So let me keep doing that. Xi Jinping has urged Anthony Albanese to maintain the renewed Australia-China relationship. And I want to quote this part and put it to you, Aaron, ‘no matter how the international landscape may evolve,’ can we maintain it, no matter how the international landscape may evolve?
VIOLI: I think those words, as you've quoted them, are very interesting, and this becomes the test for the Prime Minister and the government. Whether it's the Port of Darwin or whether it is the national security in the Indo-Pacific. We should never be making decisions that aren't in our national interest, and we should have those strong ties with China as is a particularly round trade. But it shouldn't be at any cost, and it shouldn't be to give up our national interests or impact security. So it's an interesting choice of phrase. We should continue to look to strengthen the relationship. As Pat has said, there is a lot of jobs that are that are impacted, but not at any cost. And we've learned that previously, that China are prepared and the CCP are prepared to use trade coercion to look to get their way, and the government needs to stand up to that if that eventuates into the future.
KARVELAS: Now, just to fact check something that I said, the journalists were not actually blocked from getting on the bus. This is from journalists on the ground. They were asked to stop filming, which of course is still an issue, but we want to be very accurate here at the ABC to reflect exactly what happened today. Opposition Leader, Sussan Ley, said today that 'silence on the things that matter to Australia can never be the cost of a ticket to Beijing'. Which was a, you know, an interesting thing to say. Patrick Gorman, there's an implication there, that there has been a silence. Is she right, broadly, with the point that she makes?
GORMAN: I think if Sussan Ley has a particular foreign policy concern, she should come out and say it. What that says to me is that she is seeking to, sort of somehow imply, that it is something that Australia does not speak up on in our national interests. We have seen from the Foreign Minister, the Prime Minister, that we always put the Australian national interest first. Whether that be on consular cases. Whether that be on our beliefs in preserving the international rules-based order and making sure that we have a stable and peaceful Pacific. We do all of that. The Opposition Leader knows that. So if there is a particular concern she has, she should come out and say it. I don't think she has a particular concern. I think she's just looking to find a way to undermine this very important trip.
KARVELAS: Aaron, that is a really important point, I think, is it about undermining the trip? Because if you look at the sort of list of business people there, they are desperately trying to get this to the next level for our economic benefit, and the government has been raising these issues. Just last week, Penny Wong raised the circumnavigation of Australia with her counterpart. So isn't that already happening?
VIOLI: No, I wouldn't say that we're looking to undermine the trip at all. And if you look at Sussan's comments broadly, she talked of the importance of the trip and the importance of the relationship with China, but made the point, as I have as well and many others have made, whether it's the Port of Darwin, whether it's a circumnavigation of Australia, or any other incidents that do occur, they need to be raised, and should be raised going forward, no matter what. And we shouldn't, you know, sell our national interests out. So I think it's a broad comment. The Prime Minister himself and many others, and I think Xi Jinping made the comment, we agree where we can and disagree where we must. I'm just making sure that we always do that in Australia's national interest. It is a continual and ongoing balancing act for all prime ministers of Australia.
KARVELAS: I'm going to politely interrupt you both. The Prime Minister is now speaking from Beijing.