TOM CONNELL, HOST: The Coalition will go to the next election with a policy to have nuclear power up to seven reactors around the country. Joining me now is Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister Patrick Gorman, thank you for your time, is nuclear power safe?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Well, nuclear power is not the smart path forward for Australia. Obviously, I hope for those countries that do have nuclear power, that they have a safe experience of that energy source, because obviously the alternative is absolute catastrophe. We have seen those catastrophes from time to time. What I want is the smart path for Australia. The smart path for Australia is to continue the path that we are on. That's more renewables, more energy in the grid, more electrification and I'm here in Collie, in the southwest of Western Australia, where Mr. Dutton has proposed a nuclear power plant. I have to say, the locals here have far more questions than they have answers and a bit of annoyance that the Nationals Leader David Littleproud, who has come all the way to WA, but has refused to come here to Collie.
CONNELL: So, you are out there where there might be a nuclear power plant. What's your honest message? Someone says to you from Collie, you know, modern nuclear power in a country such as Australia, very high health and safety standards here, stable geology and they say to you, 'Is this safe?' What would your response be?
GORMAN: My response would be, as I said, Tom, I hope that any nuclear reactor anywhere in the world is operating safely. But what I don't want is the community of Collie, Western Australia to have to wait some 25 years under Mr. Dutton's plan to get new investments into this community. This community is already living the transition. We have coal fired power stations that are closing down in the years leading into 2029. These communities deserve a serious plan now, not being told to, 'Stop, wait for 25 years'. Like I said, I am out in the community today. I have done a roundtable with people who work in the energy industry here in Collie, people who work in the tourism industry. People are really concerned about what this means for jobs. Really concerned about what Mr. Dutton's plan means when it comes to tanking housing prices. Really concerned about what it means for the tourism economy. I think there is also a pretty good acknowledgement here in Collie that Peter Dutton has chosen the site - that is Collie, Western Australia - where Peter Dutton has never even been here. I mean, seriously. We deserve better than that.
CONNELL: So, you are just saying if we get nuclear power in Australia, tourists won't come?
GORMAN: I'm saying that I'm standing here in Collie right now. I'm speaking to people, leaders in the tourism industry here. They have seen a, pre-COVID level, 73 per cent increase in tourism, because they have been doing the hard work of building up their tourism economy. They are already concerned that if Collie is seen to be a nuclear town, rather than the wonderful tourist town that it is, that's not going to give them the economic opportunities that the people themselves here have chosen. They have been through a long, six-year just transition planning process. That process did not come up with the answer of nuclear power.
CONNELL: Well, it has been banned in Australia, it still is for the moment. So, it would be a weird thing to come up with at a local level when it is banned federally.
GORMAN: Banned by a Howard Government I'll note.
CONNELL: Let me put this to you, all the towns that would be getting these have or have had coal fired power plants. That's not exactly a tourist attraction, is it?
GORMAN: Again, I'm standing here in Collie, a place that has a really proud history of powering Australia for decades, a 125-year proud history and I celebrate that history. But I think also, history is just part of the story. It's also about giving communities the opportunity to determine their future. That is what we are doing here and now, with the big transition to renewable energy. There is going to be a 200-megawatt battery installed here, a great opportunity for expansion. That work has been done by Synergy and others. These things are the exciting opportunities of the future, transition that is already underway. Why are we going to have to pause it for 25 years? Waiting for Mr. Dutton to finally get around to having Western Australia as the last on his list for the rollout of his nuclear reactors.
CONNELL: One of them gets in WA possibly earlier I thought, with a small modular reactor - but look, some of that detail has to come. Let me ask you this –
GORMAN: – Just a little bit of the details to come. There is a bit missing.
CONNELL: Sure, when we do see nuclear power, it can go very wrong. For the most part, though, it's very safe. Are you willing to say to people when they ask you about nuclear power when it is run safely, and nothing does go wrong, that we don't see three-eyed fish in the local ponds?
GORMAN: Well, I think we all know that the three-eyed fish comes from The Simpsons and Blinky is a well-loved character of The Simpsons. I think some people - who have all of a sudden lost their sense of humour over the last 48 hours - just need to lighten up a little.
CONNELL: But it is serious for a local in Collie, who might see the hints or the memes from Labor MPs and think, 'Should I stop drinking my water? Do I have to move towns?' Because if it does become a reality in these places, you don't want misinformation getting out, do you?
GORMAN: I think if you want to ask a serious question about water: What people have told me here today, is that when it comes to the water supply, they know that if you were to locate a nuclear reactor here in Collie, it would require a huge amount of water. That will be water that will be taken away from our agricultural industries and water that will be taken away -
CONNELL: Doesn't coal need a lot of water too?
GORMAN: As you know, the requirements of a large nuclear reactor are different and the ways they use water is different. Even Mr. Dutton, who doesn't have much detail out, would agree with that detail. Already, locals are asking, 'Are we going to have to have desalination plants? Is that going to mean that actually the location is not going to be Collie? Would it make more sense for it to be elsewhere?' So again, this absolute lack of detail, absolute lack of planning is raising more questions. The leader of the National Party has raised another question today. He said on radio in Perth, Western Australia, on the ABC Radio, sorry, a competitor, but that's where he said it. He said that they have already done the geological survey work. Now I didn't see them release that two days ago. So, if they have done that geological survey work. Where is it?
CONNELL: Alright, more to come. We will end it there, not because you mentioned the ABC. We let everyone get mentioned here we are an open and thriving democracy with enshrined freedom of speech on Afternoon Agenda. Patrick Gorman, we will see you next week.