GREG JENNETT, HOST: For a sense of exactly where things could be up to this Tuesday, let's check in now with the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister and Member for Perth, Patrick Gorman, Patrick, welcome back to the program. Why don't we pick up on housing, since the Greens did fold and we got that deal. What's the next imperative? Are there more deals to be cut with them?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: What we've argued on a lot of bills that are before the Senate right now is that those bills stand on their own merits. And when it comes to bills like our plan to keep the National Broadband Network in public hands, or protect Free TAFE for the long term, they stand on their merits. And that's the argument we've been making to the Greens Party and the Coalition when it comes to Help to Buy. And I'm not just saying that because I think it's a good idea. I'm saying that as a Western Australian, where we had a program which Help to Buy is modelled on.
JENNETT: Yes.
GORMAN: That has helped 120,000 people into their own homes in Western Australia over 30 years. This is going to make a huge difference. And of course, people are frustrated that it took the Greens in particular, so long, so much political game playing, so many interviews with yourself and others, talking about how they were here, then they were there, all over the place. Finally, it's done, and that's good, because it's a sensible bill.
JENNETT: Will the Government develop further housing offerings between now and the election?
GORMAN: We've got more work to do on housing. We know that. We've said that very clearly. Minister Clare O'Neil is continuing to do that policy development work. But we also recognised that we needed to get the things done that we promised we would do at the last election, and Help to Buy was a big part of that. When it comes to housing, we're always looking for more ways to help more Australians and innovative ways - some of the work that we're doing on on Build to Rent, that's about sort of trying to build up a new form of housing that's not been particularly popular or -
JENNETT: - Yeah, It's not popular with, it's not even financially attractive, perhaps, even with these incentives to developers. It's right at the margins at present. What makes you think this particular incentive contained in the bill, which I think goes through tonight or tomorrow, will turn that around?
GORMAN: Well, because what we know is that the system we had until this bill was put on the table, wasn't working. We weren't seeing enough investment. So, we needed to try something new. And also to be able to tap different forms of capital markets that maybe haven't been looking to Australia as an investment destination. We know that these can be very good, very secure, long term investments for people who want secure returns. And also, there are more and more investors in the world, and indeed, here in Australia, who are looking to invest with a social return as well. And there's not much better social return you'll get than helping someone into their own home, or into a safe and secure home.
JENNETT: Well, the Future Fund, actually, under an investment mandate that's just being issued to it. Look, I won't dwell too much on that. I think we discussed it at great length with others last week, Patrick Gorman. Deloitte Access Economics has cast its eye over the Budget and reckons MYEFO is going to show us something around the minus $33 billion mark, by way of deficit when it comes out in December. Where does that leave the thinking about holding a budget in March, or perhaps going to the election before then?
GORMAN: Firstly, on the Deloitte numbers, they're not the Government's numbers. We understand that people will seek to try and get the jump, or guess what the numbers might be, or in Deloitte's case, do some careful modelling, but they're not our numbers.
JENNETT: But even your numbers have us at minus 28, you know, a $28 billion deficit, so it's only marginally worse than that. They're all bad from here. That's the truth of the matter, isn't it?
GORMAN: Well, the Treasurer gave an economic update last week talking about some of the changes that are happening in the economy, both domestic and global, and what pressures that's putting on the Budget. Of course, my focus is on the household budgets of Australians. That's always going to be our priority, not thinking about the numbers here in Canberra, but thinking about what that means for people in their homes, sitting around the kitchen table. That's why we're prioritising things like energy bill relief and all the rest. And I'd also say to your viewers who do care about a high quality economic policy debate; the fact is that this Government has presided over a $172 billion turnaround in the nation's finances. Taking all those Liberal deficits, turning them into Labor surpluses. $172 billion - that's a big turnaround, and it's made a real difference, particularly when it comes to the fight against inflation.
JENNETT: Yep, exactly. Why don't we talk about unresolved economic policies, though, has the Government given up on increasing the tax rate on higher balance superannuation accounts, as was promised a couple of budgets ago now? But it seems loveless at the moment in the Parliament, will that be passed this side of the next election?
GORMAN: I can't tell you what decisions the Senate is going to make over the next few days. I wish I could. I wish that we didn't have a political system where the opposition parties try and run everything down to the very last minute, or indeed, the last hours of the sittings of the Senate. But that's the system that we have, and we'll see that play out over Wednesday and Thursday.
JENNETT: But one thing you can do is prioritise it in the Senate and say, 'we'll make it the number one item for debate on Wednesday morning.' It doesn't seem this is going to happen with the super.
GORMAN: On that policy; it remains part of our economic forecasts, it remains part of our budget plan, but we recognise that the Australian people have given us a Senate that sometimes chooses to prioritise things in different ways. We've got to work within that democratic system. But I do wish we didn't have a system where everything gets pushed off until the last hours of sitting for the year, but that's what we've got.
JENNETT: Alright, let me take you to something which is squarely within your remit, Patrick Gorman. The public service. You've had out today the State of the Service Report, which is prepared by the Public Service Commission on the numbers and the make up of the public service, 185,300 employees, we discover today. Wondering if there's a man problem in the public service, since the gender balance, roughly speaking, across all the agencies now has women at 60% - is that good?
GORMAN: Well, firstly, I want to say thank you to all 185,000 public servants for the incredibly important work they do. The report shows that they do work across arranging organ transplants, to setting up Anzac Day ceremonies, not just in Australia but across the globe. Through to the new drone rules that apply to keep everyone safe -
JENNETT: - Pretty diverse.
GORMAN: It's a diverse public service that we have, and the important work like making sure people get their Centrelink and Veterans Affairs payments on time. We do have more women in the public service than men. The average public servant is is a woman, around a APS level six, in her forties. That is what we have. But I think we've also done some really good work, and the report shows this, in coming to closing the gender pay gap when it comes to the public service. And one of the things that really annoyed a lot of people who've been in this service for a long time was that you had lots of women, but they weren't seeing it in the top levels of the public service.
JENNETT: And you are now.
GORMAN: And we are now, but there's still a bit to do.
JENNETT: Okay? And one last one that just struck me, and it's worthy of a question - work from home. So, it says that some of the time, roughly 50% of the public service are working from home. All of the time, one department - Climate Change - 16% of the workforce; are you comfortable with that?
GORMAN: The expectations we've put on all public servants, whatever agency they're in, is that they have to demonstrate public benefit for their flexible working arrangements. That's my expectation. If an agency can't show that it benefits the public, then it shouldn't be happening. But we do have those flexible work arrangements in place.
JENNETT: It seems very popular with the workforce in the public service. Alright, Patrick Gorman, time's going to beat us there's much more we could traverse today, but we'll wrap it up there. And thank you as always for coming on the programme.
GORMAN: Thank you, Greg.