TOM CONNELL, HOST: Let's start by talking about this and a few other issues of the day. Joining me live, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister Patrick Gorman and NSW Liberal Party President Jason Falinski. Gentlemen, thank you both for your time. Patrick, I'll start with you. First of all, it's interesting, with such strong support from corporate Australia that it doesn't appear to be moving the needle in terms of opinion polls. Is this almost a bit like the celebrities involved in the referendum republic debate that actually seemed to result in Australians saying, 'hey, I'll make up my mind all by myself'?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Well, everyone's involved in this debate. Whether they be the CEO of a major company or they be someone that I doorknocked in Eden Hill in my electorate on the weekend. 18 million Australians get a say. And I think it's important that we have a diversity of voices, community voices, business voices, First Nations voices. Everyone needs needs to participate in this big exercise in Australian democracy as we seek to write the next chapter of our constitution. I welcome the engagement from Qantas. Qantas, as a great Australian company, has been engaged in questions of reconciliation for decades. You can't question Qantas' commitment to reconciliation. And this is entirely unsurprising. That an organisation like Qantas loved by many Australians and indeed a business that actually brings people together. I'm joining you from the Brisbane studios today. Qantas got me here to the east coast of Australia. Qantas brings people together. And that's what this referendum will do. It will bring people together.
CONNELL: Jason, I feel like you want to weigh in here.
JASON FALINSKI, NSW LIBERAL PARTY PRESIDENT: I can't beat that, Tom. I can't beat that Tom. That answer had in it: Patrick's been out in his community doorknocking, a free plug for Qantas, and let's get on with it. I don't think think there are any Australians who, frankly, don't look at the plight of so many Indigenous Australians and their hearts don't go out to them. The question is quite clear now, what is there left to say, other than, 'can you please tell us when this referendum is going to be held?'
GORMAN: I can answer that right now, Jason. It'll be between October and December of this year.
CONNELL: Well, for all of us who's going to be working on that and trying to plan -
FALINSKI: That, Patrick, is not an answer.
CONNELL: - that is useless, Patrick Gorman. Yeah, I'll agree with that one. But, Jason, maybe I've asked you a bit too late on this. I guess you've got to toe the company line on this, but do you have a bit more of an open mind than some of the No campaigners on this? They say it's divisive, some even it's just dividing on race, and there's been some pretty vehement opposition to it. What's your view on the proposal in front of us?
FALINSKI: Tom, my view is any idea that bridges the gap between any part of our country and the other is worth talking about and is worth debating. I hope that this debate, like all debates that we have in Australia, is conducted in a proper, respectful manner and is not divisive. To date, I haven't seen that. We've had allegations from all sorts of people about AI Bots being involved, which has been largely disproved. But, you know, what is important is that Australians have the capacity to come together and to disagree without being disagreeable. But, I think what a lot of people have said and what was said today, which is we can't have one part of our community being Indigenous Australians, so far behind the rest of Australians, not being afforded the opportunities to prosper that the rest of us have. And that's what all of us should be focused on. And I know the previous government was, and I know future governments will be as well.
CONNELL: Okay, look, bit more to discuss today. Why don't we get on to the Labor Party Conference? Patrick Gorman, I was going to say debate, but I'll be honest, this is another one, isn't it? Organised ahead of time. Any skerrick of real debate is being shut down, isn't it? Is that what's going to happen here? And you and the PM, you're his, I guess, sort of spokesperson - the Assistant Prime Minister - are making sure no real debate gets a look in here?
GORMAN: It's still three days away, Tom. And it is up to the delegates of the Australian Labor Party National Conference to decide what they debate, the tone of that debate. I think it will be an energised but respectful debate around a number of important policy areas. So, I think what's great about the Labor Party National Conference is that it is the biggest democratic political party gathering in Australia. We are open for all to see. You and your colleagues will be there, both from Sky and from the media at large, be able to see us being a 21st century democratic political party. Now, I note that the Greens Party don't do that. They kind of do everything behind closed doors. They demand transparency from everyone else except from themselves. We're pretty proud of the fact that we have, every three years, an open Democratic conference where we debate ideas across the full spectrum of federal policy matters. I'm really looking forward to it, I know my colleagues are, and it's great to be doing it in Brisbane this year.
CONNELL: I feel a bit all filled up on talking points there, but I guess you've got to be cautious ahead of this conference. Jason, I'm going to ask you about debate within your party because I sincerely hope since you've taken the presidential hat or whatever they give you, maybe it's a big goblet to drink out of at various meetings, but you're still going to be straight talking. And you'll call out Mark Speakman who's just become another one of these NIMBY's that I know you hate. He doesn't want development in his own backyard. What do you make of what the Opposition Leader's had to say about he doesn't want this sort of dense apartment living in his area?
FALINSKI: Well, Tom, the problem with debate in the NSW Division is that since I took over, everyone agrees with me. I don't know how that happened. It's been very confusing for me. And as you know, I don't like it when people agree with me and you and Pat and that's why you, Patrick, and I are such good friends -
GORMAN: - I don't agree with you, Jason. That's what I'm here for -
FALINSKI: I know. That's what I'm saying, Patrick. That's what I'm saying. You help me with my psychosis of needing to be a contrarian. I would say, however, when Patrick criticises the -
GORMAN: - I'm here to help.
FALINSKI: Thank you, Patrick. That's on your business card, isn't it? I noticed when Patrick criticises the Greens for meeting behind closed doors, he leaves out the Teals. We can't even find the door that Simon Holmes-à-Court and Mike Cannon-Brookes have their meetings behind.
But, nonetheless, you know, open democracy is important, unless you're the one doing the deciding.
CONNELL: Are we wheeling our way around to the question I asked Jason, I feel like we've sort of driven along the coastal route here.
FALINSKI: No, I was hoping you hadn't noticed. I was hoping you hadn't notice. Anyway, look, I think, Tom, to be blunt with you, Mark Speakman and Australians generally can preserve heritage buildings and still have more housing, I mean, it's not like Australia doesn't have enough land. I mean, I do ask
the Minns Government, which is increasingly looking like a continuation of the Carr Labor Government, why it is that of all the places in Sydney, that you can build more housing, that you have to go and pick on the oldest building in Cronulla? Would it be that you were after a front page story on the Sydney Morning Herald today, and not actually after increasing supply in the Sydney housing market? Now, Tom, you and I, the other week I talked about how I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Chris Minns on his desire to increase housing in NSW. Since then, we've learnt that he wants to rip down the oldest building in Cronulla. But has done a sweetheart deal with the person who is the greatest cause of housing unaffordability in Australia. None other than Clover Moore. And I do ask the Sydney Morning Herald and I do ask Sky News, frankly, why more airtime hasn't been given to that sweetheart deal?
CONNELL: Well, happy to give that some air. We might put on a bid for Clover Moore. You've inspired me when you say rip it down - the facade stays of this building. It's not quite what's happening. Isn't it? Isn't that the reality of what you've got to do in Australia? Because you say 'we've got enough land.' Yeah, we've got a massive country. You've got to build where people want to be, and they're closer to their school, work, et cetera, it's not just about finding any bit of land anywhere, you know that.
FALINSKI: I'm, yeah, Tom, I'm so sick of that argument. It's the argument that the central planners that created this problem use all the time. Australians want to be in a home that they own. That's where they want to be. Australia has more inhabitable land than any other continent in the world besides the penguins of the South Pole. Excuses are up. They're up. Everyone knows that the answer is supply. It wasn't the case twelve months ago, but that's that.
CONNELL: Patrick, quick one to you. I'm going to get in trouble. Apologies in advance, Sophie, but public holiday? We know Jason will just say bah humbug. He hates public holidays and people having fun. What do you think?
FALINSKI: That's untrue! These people will be Australian heroes.
CONNELL: Patrick, do you feel sorry for small business? Why not just have the ticker tape parade through the city. Businesses get a bit of a run too, and people will go and buy things. It doesn't have to be a public holiday, does it?
GORMAN: Well, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. We've still got to get through two matches for the Matildas. But like many I was watching on Saturday night and it was pretty exciting and I could feel that public holiday coming a little closer. It'll be if we have that amazing win of the World Cup for Australia in just a few sleeps time, I think there'll be overwhelming support for a public holiday and the economic benefits that flow from a big win. A public holiday is the least that the Premiers and Chief Ministers can do to celebrate what would be a truly phenomenal win. But let's wait till Saturday night.
CONNELL: Jason, ten seconds, have I misrepresented you there?
FALINSKI: Tom this doesn't go far enough. The Prime Minister needs to promise a public holiday with free beer. That's what he needs to do. He hasn't gone far enough.
GORMAN: Jason, I'll buy you a beer. I'll buy you two.
FALINSKI: Between door knocking, Patrick? That would be fantastic. I appreciate that.
GORMAN: You can come door knocking with me anytime. You know that.
FALINSKI: I'll even fly Qantas to get there.
CONNELL: There you go, so Patrick's going to buy two beers, and Jason will be door knocking for Patrick. I don't know, if that will work out for Patrick Gorman. Apart from saying, 'who's this bloke?', they might not like some of his beers. Patrick, Jason, talk soon.