KIERAN GILBERT, HOST Joining me now from Perth is the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Thanks so much for your time. There's been a lot of reaction to the Government's response to the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, criticism of the Prime Minister's handling of it, to the extent that there have been different views expressed, including by Ed Husic and Anne Aly. Does that open the Government to accusations of division over this crucial issue right now, Patrick Gorman?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Well, what you saw in the Parliament last week, Kieran, was actually not just the Government members all voting for resolution strongly showing our support for Israel and its right to defend itself in the face of absolutely, horrendous terrorist attacks which no community should have to go about their lives thinking that they are the sort of things that are likely to happen. But we saw not just the Government vote for that motion, including those Ministers you mentioned, but you also saw the Opposition vote for that motion. And what's important for Australia is that friendship and that relationship we have with the State of Israel goes back, and indeed, it was Australia casting the first vote at the United Nations for the creation of the modern state of Israel. That support is very strong.
And then when it comes to these questions around ensuring that civilians do not bear the worst of what we see at war, that's something that you're seeing a range of leaders say around the world, because we don't want to see unnecessary civilian lives lost, be they Israeli, Palestinian, others. It is something I think, whenever we watch your coverage - as thankfully, Australia a long way away from where these events are happening. Whenever anyone here in Australia watches the coverage on Sky or other networks, it reminds you of the brutality of war, but also the role that we all have to play in upholding those things that preserve and project peace into the world. And that's obviously what Australia seeks to do.
GILBERT: The Prime Minister's visit continues in Washington, and there was an announcement today alongside Microsoft. This “Cyber Shield,” where Microsoft will work with the Australian Signals Directorate to establish greater cybersecurity in this country. Is this an interesting paradox, given the Prime Minister's heading to China just next week? And does remind us that on the one hand, we are engaging again with China, but these cyber questions - obviously China looms large in that context as well.
GORMAN: Well, the Government, we, of course, want to make sure that the data of Australian citizens is held safely when it comes to protecting critical national infrastructure. We want to make sure that we've got the best possible cyber defence. And of course, this is important for business, too. Now, one of the challenges when it comes to cyberattacks is often you don't know who is behind that attack. You can't go and have a conversation with them and say, “could you please stop?” This is stuff where malicious actors are able to act with a level of secrecy and anonymity that makes these very hard attacks to respond to. And so in terms of the announcement from the Prime Minister today and Microsoft; that's about getting more data centres - I think the number is 29 data centres - that will be part of this announcement, making sure we've got the skills. Because every business now needs these data skills to make sure that they're protected and able to provide sorts of services that Australians - and indeed the world - wants. We've got some great Australian success stories here of selling Australian tech into the international marketplace, and this will support that as well. So, it's just common sense to be investing in these sorts of projects that actually help create the sorts of jobs we want for Australians and the sort of security that Australians expect, whether it be cyber or in the real world.
GILBERT: You're Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, but also Assistant Minister for the Public Service. Today, a new framework has been released by the Government to limit the use of contractors and consultants. Has this been undertaken off the back of the PwC scandal?
GORMAN: We came to office with a range of commitments to strengthen the Australian Public Service. And what we know is that if we want to strengthen the Australian Public Service, then we need public servants doing the sorts of work that too often we've got contractors and consultants doing. Now, I don't think any of your viewers would think it's right that you've got contractors and consultants doing key work in writing Cabinet submissions or writing pieces of legislation. I don't think it's right that you have people who are effectively contracts and consultants, sitting on the executive team of an agency. We want public service work to be done by public servants. And that's what this is about. I'm sure you can list a range of examples where that hasn't been the case. I'm sure your viewers have seen a few examples where things have been outsourced and the outcomes for both the workers in those agencies, but also the outcomes for citizens who rely on these services hasn't been up to scratch. So, we're taking a big step today to make sure that public service work is done by the people who are best placed to do it. And so often that is indeed members of the Australian Public Service.
GILBERT: But it's going to take a lot of rebuilding too, isn't it? Because resources have been gradually reduced in recent times within the public service, so the capacity isn't there.
GORMAN: This is a big challenge we're taking on, but we believe that it's a challenge we must take on, because I want to make sure that we get the best quality policy advice so that governments make the best decisions. And that means making sure we have that highly capable, independent public service advising us on the challenges we face. It will take time, and that's why, in the Strategic Commissioning Framework that Minister Gallagher and myself released today, that will have clear requirements for agency heads, departmental secretaries and the like to report upon the progress they are making. And there's also some guides about, we know that what's happened, particularly under the Coalition with their outsourcing over the last decade or so, not everything can be fixed with the stroke of a pen. It will take some time, but we've given clear guidance, clear steps and clear expectations about the sorts of work that really should be being done by public servants and how we want to make sure that we're bringing that work back in-house so we get the best policy advice to make the right decisions for Australia.
GILBERT: Assistant Minister to the PM, Patrick Gorman. Thanks.
GORMAN: Thanks, Kieran.