NADIA MITSOPOULOS, HOST: Now, what is your level of interest in the Coronation? It's a global event, that's for sure, with a level of pomp and ceremony a lot of us have probably not seen in a lifetime. Now, some of you listening may remember the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II back in 1953. And I wonder If your level of interest is as big as it was back then? Will you watch? Will you pledge allegiance? Or, once the King's had his day, is it time to get on with the business of becoming a republic. Keen on your views, 1300 222 720. To talk more about this, I've got Patrick Gorman in the studio, Labor Member for Perth and also the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister. Hello.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Nadia, and good morning to your listeners.
MITSOPOULOS: Now, are you excited about this, Patrick? You don't strike me as a monarchist.
GORMAN: I am both excited about this and a republican. This is a huge event for the world. This is one of the biggest gatherings of leaders anywhere on Earth this year. It's probably bigger than UN General Assembly leaders week. So, it is a big moment and it's important for Australia because, twice, Australians have chosen a monarchy as our system of government and as a result of that, the King is deeply enshrined in our Constitution, our system of government. And you mentioned 1953, when Queen Elizabeth II was coronated. As soon as that was done, they moved to the planning of her visit to Australia, which was a huge logistical exercise. She was here for, I think, 57 days, visited 58 towns and many of your listeners of a certain age would have very fond memories of that visit.
MITSOPOULOS: Okay, and we'll talk about whether King Charles comes in a moment, but just on tomorrow; the Prime Minister obviously is there with the Governor-General. Our Governor, Chris Dawson is there as well. What's their role?
GORMAN: Their role is to officially observe this moment, which is the Coronation of King Charles III. And it is tradition that Australia sends a senior delegation, normally the Prime Minister, Governor-General and others. In 1953, Sir Robert Menzies attended on behalf of Australia. There's a story that he actually was I don't think many people know this about former Prime Minister Menzies, but he was quite a keen amateur filmmaker and so he actually snuck his camera into Westminster Abbey and filmed the coronation himself. And that footage is now in the National Film and Sound Archive.
MITSOPOULOS: Was that allowed?
GORMAN: I'm almost certain it wasn't. I feel like you wouldn't see someone whipping their iPhone out tomorrow during the Coronation. I'm certain that it was Prime Minister Menzies showing in a very unique way his admiration.
MITSOPOULOS: That is such an Australian thing to do, isn't it? Yeah, we'll just break the rules and make our own. Okay, so what about the other prominent Australians that will be there? It kind of feels to me it was like famous Australians who are living in London.
GORMAN: Well, as I mentioned, this is a huge logistical exercise.
MITSOPOULOS: Samantha Kerr, Nick Cave. Both live in London. Adam Hills, Leanne Benjamin, who's with the ballet over there. Jasmine Coe, who's an Indigenous artist and actually owns a gallery over there. It does feel like it was. Let's find a list of high profile Aussies in London and they can all go.
GORMAN: Well, I think there's many Australians who do make London or the United Kingdom their home for a short or a long period of time. And indeed, the list that you've just read out, regardless of where those individuals are living today, I think they represent the breadth of Australians and I think generally, we can all go. Well, I'm actually proud of them representing us at this official event and indeed, the number of people who are heading into the United Kingdom for this event. I wouldn't want to be going through Heathrow Airport in the next 24 hours, so I think it's probably a sensible approach.
MITSOPOULOS: But on a more serious point on that, are you also being careful as a government not to spend too much money flying people over there, maybe showing a little bit of restraint, which I'm sure people aren't going to have a go at you about? It wouldn't look great, would it, having a plane load of Australians heading over for it? Is there an element of that as well?
GORMAN: I think it's an element of finding people who really embody that deep connection between Australia and United Kingdom and indeed, those being Australians. So, I think it was an appropriate choice. We did take we know that these moments are important for the service for the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II. We did fly Australians, including Helen Milroy, from Western Australia, over to London for that event. So, we've done both. But I think this is the appropriate way. And I think Sam Kerr in particular, as the flag bearer for Australia, is someone we can all be very excited to see, representing not just us Western Australians, but all Australians.
MITSOPOULOS: So, she'll hold a flag, she'll be like holding the Australian flag.
GORMAN: As you mentioned, there is lots of ceremony and Australia is one of the 15 Commonwealth Realms has a particularly special status. So, yes, she will be holding the Australian flag on a procession leading the Australian the Australian group, the Australian Representatives, and that's appropriate.
MITSOPOULOS: Patrick Gorman is my guest this morning, Labor Member for Perth. He's also the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister. Keen on your views on this, particularly as our conversation now turns towards the Republic 1300 222 720. Will you watch it? Do you have interest in watching it? And will you pledge allegiance to the King, as we're being asked to do?
GORMAN: Will I watch it? Yes, I will. I think this is a fascinating moment and indeed the first time this has happened in my lifetime. I'll head down with the kids to Northbridge Piazza, where there is a public viewing, to watch some of the pre-ceremony action. As the sun sort of sets, we'll head home and watch from home. I'll probably be more interested than the children, I acknowledge that, but I'm looking forward to that. As many of my colleagues have said, I've pledged allegiance to the Royal Family and the King three times when I've been sworn into Parliament. I have no concerns about that. That is the system of government that Australia has chosen. Now, I don't know the final details of exactly how these moments are going to play out. Tomorrow evening our time, but I'm very comfortable about pledging allegiance to the King as the head of State of Australia. That is the system of government we've got. I participate in that system. It's appropriate.
MITSOPOULOS: The Prime Minister's extended an invitation to King Charles to come to Australia. There were reports that he might be a bit concerned about how welcome he'd be here. What reception do you think he'd get?
GORMAN: What I've been doing this week is speaking to people across the country in a range of conversations like this, and what I've found is that people have very fond memories of then Prince Charles visiting Australia. And if you think here in the West, he's been to a sheep station in Coodardy, he's driven a truck in Paraburdoo, he's caught fish off the coast of Rottnest Island, he was in Albany for the Centenary of Anzac in 2015. He celebrated a birthday at Cottesloe Beach a few years after that famous kiss. So, there's a lot of people who have fond memories of him as an individual, regardless of their views on the monarchy or the Republic. So, I know that our King would be very welcome in Australia. We've extended that invitation. I'm sure there'd be many people who'd be keen to see him. And, of course, that extends to other members of the Royal Family. The Prince and Princess of Wales, obviously, have also indicated, particularly after the tragic flooding in Fitzroy Crossing, an interest in visiting Australia as well.
MITSOPOULOS: When this is all over and he's crowned and we've had the Coronation, is that the natural point now, you think, where Australia can now start moving towards a republic and having that referendum? What are the time frames that you think are appropriate there?
GORMAN: I think for those who are deeply interested in Constitutional change, obviously we are heading towards a referendum this year on another important matter, and I think we've sequenced those appropriately. That the question on the Voice is the question that should be put. That idea of proper Constitutional recognition for First Nations has been around for more than a decade. It's been gaining momentum. We have a clear proposal on the table. That's what I want to see done in 2023, and that's where I'm going to put all of my energy is to a successful constitutional improvement by enshrining recognition and representation in our constitution. Now, when it comes to the Republic, we have appointed an Assistant Minister for the Republic in Matt Thistlethwaite. He does a fantastic job of doing that Constitutional education because it is an important thing for people to understand how our Constitution works and what would and what wouldn't change. As for the timeline, we haven't committed to a timeline. We have said it wouldn't be this term. And I think these things are best when they ground up from the Australian people. And I think if I look at, again, the example of the Uluru Statement from the Heart that didn't come from Government. That was a proposal put to Government. It became clear at a point in time that we needed to do something and the Government has acted. And I would hope that that's a similar approach for some point in the future.
MITSOPOULOS: What do you think is three, four, five years? I mean, how quickly do we need to get there?
GORMAN: The Government hasn't put a timeline on how quickly, and these things do take years. Again, if you look at that long journey for Indigenous Constitutional recognition, something that is not a certainty, at the end of this year. It will be up to the Australian people to decide. We can't rush these things. But for me, I hope it happens not just in my lifetime. I hope it happens during my time in the Federal Parliament.
MITSOPOULOS: In Parliament. A couple of questions off the text and Patrick's, happy to chat to you. 1300 222 720. Deb says she can't see the benefits of a republic. What would they be?
GORMAN: I don't think this is really like a cost-benefit analysis question. The reason that I have come to the view as an individual that I'm a Republican in the Australian sense, of course not. The American sense is that this is about who should be our head of state. Now, I think we've got 27 million Australians. We've got 2.7 million of them here in the West. Not one of them can ever be our Head of State. Never. And that doesn't seem right to me. So, at some point in the future, I think we'll have to have that conversation about, well, who is the best person to be the Head of State of Australia? Is that through a Royal Family arrangement or is that through some other arrangement? And that ultimately is a values question more than it is a cost benefit analysis question.
MITSOPOULOS: Okay, a couple of people like Sam saying, why couldn't we have both questions? A republic and the Voice in one referendum. Has that ever happened before? Could we have done that?
GORMAN: Sam, I appreciate where you're coming from because obviously when you go to vote in a Federal election, you vote vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate. You do get two ballot papers. What we saw in and people sort of forget this about the Republic Referendum in 1999 is that we actually did have two proposals on that ballot paper. There was both a proposal for a preamble and there was a proposal for a Republic referendum and they both were unsuccessful. So, I think it's appropriate on this really big question of should we have recognition and consultation for First Nations people. I think it's appropriate that that is a standalone referendum. I also reflect on my earlier comments, which is that we've done so much work leading up to this particular moment around putting the question of the Voice to the Australian people later this year that it is appropriate that that it be a standalone question because it's an important decision for Australians to make. What I do hope, though, is that people will grab the opportunity I've got this week. I've been travelling around with my copy of the Constitution and I hold that up. I think there's an opportunity for Australians to have more of an education both through this Coronation and as we hedge towards that referendum later this year, just about what our Constitution is, what it does and doesn't say, and how it is that we do choose to change it.
MITSOPOULOS: I'll leave it there. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming in.
GORMAN: Thank you, Nadia.