PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Let's start with some breaking news from the government this afternoon. Labor will keep former leader Mark Latham's photo on its caucus wall, but add these words:
“In 2017 Mark Latham was expelled from the Australian Labor Party and banned for life. His actions do not accord with Labor values and fail to meet the standards we expect and demand.”
Now, Mr Latham is currently facing allegations of emotional and physical abuse, allegations he strenuously denies. This has been an issue that has been developing over the last week. But of course, this isn't the first time Mark Latham has been controversial. He has been accused of misogyny in the past. I want to bring in the Finance Minister, who's also the Minister for Women, Katy Gallagher, this afternoon. Katy Gallagher, welcome.
SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks for having me on, PK.
KARVELAS: So this decision was made to add words, but keep Mark Latham's portrait on your wall. But you still have to look at him. Why did you decide to go down this route?
GALLAGHER: Well, caucus members have been obviously considering this over the last week or so. Mark Latham was expelled from our party and life banned in 2017, so action was taken back then, in light of, some of his behaviour, and also leaving to join another political party. I think there's a recognition, on balance, that, you know, you can't erase history. He was our leader. He was our leader for two years. And, you know, sitting there on the wall is an indication of where we've been, and perhaps we've – for all of us, somewhere we don't want to return to. But I think acknowledging the fact that he was expelled and that his actions don't align with modern Australian Labor Party values or standards of behaviour, I think is important, and so that will be placed on his photo in on the wall in our caucus room.
KARVELAS: As we go to air this afternoon the Environment Minister is at the bottom of our screen speaking. We'll find out what he has to say in a moment, and we'll go to that. Minister I'm going to continue with you, though, just on that issue, you say he was expelled in 2017. Was it a mistake not to do something like this at that time?
GALLAGHER: I think, you know, that the wall with photos is really a recognition of who's led our party. I think the expulsion was a message of, you know, how our relationship with Mark Latham had deteriorated to that point. But I think, you know, and for many of us who've watched some of the news reports, well for years really, but in particular, some of the new and disturbing allegations that have been raised, I think people in the caucus expected us to go further and make a statement, and we've done that.
KARVELAS: Was there a debate around it that some people want to pull it down?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think there's mixed views, as you would expect in any workplace. But that the position we've taken was unanimous, and people felt that it incorporated a lot of those that had concerns, you know, about his photo that this has helped to, you know, make a statement, and I think that's what we needed to do, and it will stand there and as a reminder. And also, for future members of our caucus, you know, that that is largely a revered wall of leaders about some of our history.
KARVELAS: Is the reminder a lesson?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think so. Yeah.
KARVELAS: What is that lesson?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think, you know, I wasn't there at the time, but, you know, I think it was a style of leadership that didn't sit well with the values of the Australian Labor Party, and it's a type of leadership that people wouldn't want to return to.
KARVELAS: It's funny, you say you weren't here, I was as a reporter. And I recall, and Tanya Plibersek has put this on the record, Labor women telling me privately how distressed they were. I think inside the Labor Party, it was thought, many women had told me at the time that they thought of him as a misogynist, and so is that part of the lesson too? Listen to your women in caucus?
GALLAGHER: For sure, I mean that's why we've wanted more women in caucus, so those voices are louder. I mean, this caucus that I just left, the caucus meeting I just left, 56 per cent are women. You know, it just, it does change an organisation, I think so. But I think it also, adding the words also, you know, sends a message about the government we are now. The caucus room we are now. And the fact that when we talk the talk about gender equality and attitudes and behaviours matter. When it comes to how women are treated in the workplace, that you have to stand by those statements, and not only stand by it, but demonstrate your action. And I think the agreement that caucus reached today does that.
KARVELAS: The breaking news coming out of the Murray Watt press conference, which we'll take you to soon, to our viewers, is that there will be $14 million on a package from the federal government to deal with this environmental disaster going on in South Australia. Now you're the Finance Minister, you would have had to authorise that, as the Expenditure Review Committee does and the Cabinet does. Why spend this money? Is this a federal intervention, a national emergency?
GALLAGHER: Well, I guess we've been working, the Environment Minister has been working with the South Australian Government. This is obviously an issue that they've been managing. And we have had a request from them yesterday for some assistance, and we've responded with that assistance package that the Minister’s out announcing now. We want to work with the South Australian Government. We recognise how the algal bloom is devastating for the South Australian community, and everyone is feeling it down there. And when assistance is asked for and we can afford it, find room for it and where we believe it's the right thing to do, we'll make those decisions, which we've done today, and Murray is announcing.
KARVELAS: I want to just go to something that the Prime Minister said today. He said, If Labor governs as well, it can expand on its record number of MPs. Why is he warning about hubris? Is it something you're worried about?
GALLAGHER: I think the Prime Minister, and he's been clear since the election and he was certainly in the room today, sees the immense opportunity but responsibility that we have and that we've been afforded by the Australian community, and he wants to remind people about that. It's when people get sworn in tomorrow, it's an enormous privilege as individuals, but also as a member of the party that governs, and he wants everyone to remember that all the time. He also spoke about delivery, this is about delivering what we said we would do, and never taking anything for granted. And there's a lot of commentary about how many seats, but we know that they can be taken away as easily as they are won. And part of that is us being true to what we said we'd do, but also always – and he said this in the room, I don't want to breach his confidence – but that, you know, never forget about who we're here to serve.
KARVELAS: And who is that?
GALLAGHER: Well, it's the people that we represent when we when we come together as a group. It's across the country, but it's everyone that has, you know, relies on good government and good decisions.
KARVELAS: The first speeches are instructive. You've got the first speech is being given by the Member for Dickson Ali France, and also the Member for Melbourne, Sarah Whitty. Now they're – for our viewers who don't know – they're two seats that were won by Labor, that were actually held by leaders of the political parties, the Greens and the Liberals. Is that hubris? Why put them first?
GALLAGHER: Well, both extraordinary women who ran extraordinary campaigns and were very successful in those campaigns. We've got a lot of first speeches to get through over the next fortnight-
KARVELAS: But they’re the first-
GALLAGHER: Look, every person who won a seat is important. Obviously, you have to schedule them. But yeah, I reckon, I think unseating two leaders of a political party is, you know, another layer on your election campaign or your victory. And for people like Ali France who have, you know, contested not just one, but two, but three, federal election campaigns, it's recognition of that effort I think.
KARVELAS: The legislation that's being introduced this week, the HECS reduction and the childcare changes, which have really come out of an emergency that we've seen in the childcare sector. Do you want to see both of those pieces of legislation actually passed in the next fortnight? I mean, your negotiations are, of course, in the Senate as a key Senate player. Is that what you'd like to see?
GALLAGHER: Well, certainly on the HECS, I think that's more straightforward. It's been around. It's an election commitment. We should be able to get that through. I don't want to get ahead of how the Senate might want to deal with legislation, because, you know, it has its own will, being a minority chamber. But we would like-
KARVELAS: Would you agree to a Senate Committee to look at the childcare changes?
GALLAGHER: I mean, some of that's been kicked around for a while, too, and there is a sense of urgency in that reform. But we, obviously will have discussions across the Senate. The PM’s made clear he would like some legislation through this fortnight, and that'll be one of my jobs, is to try and do that.
KARVELAS: Okay, so you would like to get the childcare reforms passed through the Senate? Or do you think that there's a better case for waiting to scrutinise that properly?
GALLAGHER: Well, the Senate will form a view on that, PK. I think definitely on the HECS legislation, we should be able to get that through. But, you know, for the Senators too, we only have two sitting days, not many of that – not this week, on Wednesday and Thursday, not much of that is government business time. So, there's actually a timetabling issue there as well.
KARVELAS: Okay, interesting. On the super tax bill, why isn't that up this fortnight?
GALLAGHER: Look there's, you know, we've got our legislation that we're putting in that the PM said was our priority. The treasurer has, you know, discussions to continue with other parties. We don't have, and we didn't have, majority through the Senate for that piece of legislation, so there's a little bit more to do there.
KARVELAS: Okay, so there's more negotiation, I'm hearing, on that?
GALLAGHER: Well, there's some discussion. We have to get the numbers, we have to get the numbers to get the Bill through. We didn't have that in the last Parliament.
KARVELAS: And what's the most likely way that you'll do that? It's the Greens, obviously, because the Coalition's made their views very clear.
GALLAGHER: I would think so, yeah.
KARVELAS: And so, they're making several demands. Are you going to stare them down on this, or are you willing to look at issues like indexation?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think the Treasurer is going to have those discussions with the Greens, that's all I can say, PK.
KARVELAS: Do you think you should have an open mind as we go into this new Parliament, to show a sort of spirit of negotiation, rather than it's our way or the highway?
GALLAGHER: Well, that's, I mean, I don't know that it's ever been our way or the highway, because that attitude in the Senate doesn't seem to serve anyone very well. We, as always, in a minority chamber you've got to, you've got to talk with others. And you know, I know the Treasurer will be doing just that, but we need to get the numbers.
KARVELAS: Katy Gallagher, always great to speak to you. I know you're off to another event. Thank you so much.