SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR WOMEN: Well, thanks, everyone for coming this morning for the release of this important report. I'm joined by the chair of the taskforce, the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce, Sam Mostyn, who has been an incredible chair leading this work, since the Government and I asked her to lead the work.
As you know, Sam is involved in a whole range of, of issues across the community, but she also has done a lot of work with the New South Wales government looking at women's economic equality, and that led to her appointment to this role here. She's done an incredible job. And so I'd like to start by thanking Sam and also the 12 other members of the taskforce who came from a variety of areas. From the union movement, from the business community, from First Nations, from the migrant community, you name it, we tried to ensure that we were hearing and listening to the voices of women right across the economy through the work that Sam has led. So, I acknowledge them and their dedication and thank them very much for their contribution through this important report.
I think anyone who has had the opportunity to have a look at this report would find some of the data in it pretty confronting. We know that women, when it comes to economic equality, we don't have a gender equal Australia. We know that women work less, they earn less, they suffer from a motherhood penalty when they take time out of work for children, superannuation, lower balances. We live in a highly gender-segregated workforce or labour market where women tend to be in more insecure part-time work, in jobs where the pay is less, and the work is less valued.
So there are a lot of issues for women, and women and work, and women in care, and women and access to training and skills, that we need to make a difference on we need to improve it. We've got a problem in this country. And part of the work that's enshrined in this document and the recommendations that come from it, helped to pave the way for us in that. So, there are a number of recommendations -- I'll hand to Sam in a minute -- many of the areas the government is working on and we've been working on since we came to government.
We've made some changes to PPL. We've abolished programs like ParentsNext. We've supported the minimum wage claims, we've made investments into aged care. We've put more resources into childcare to make it more affordable for families. So, I feel like the report, you know, covers areas the government has already shown an indication we are interested in and interested in investing in, but there is more to be done. And I think the report pays out a long-term pathway for that. And for that I'm incredibly grateful and we will use this report as we are making further decisions, through budgets and through our policy decisions, about how to make sure that a little girl born today, by the time she goes to primary school isn't thinking that there's boys and girls jobs but there are jobs that everybody can do. And for the 25-year-old young woman who is facing earning less, $2 million less than a 25-year-old man, if she chooses to have a baby and then return to work. That we make a difference for them. And for the older women who are retiring with less money for retirement savings, less assets, that we are supporting them as well. So this is a really important report.
It's not just a women's report. It's a report for economic equality. It's about driving productivity across the economy. It's for making a difference in people's lives, making difference in families' lives, and I'm really pleased that we've got it, because this will help shape the Government's thinking going forward.
SAM MOSTYN AO, TASKFORCE CHAIR: Thank you, Minister. And I'd like to start by thanking Katy Gallagher for the way she started this process. It takes boldness and courage to stand up a taskforce of 13 eminent women from across the country, representing a very broad range of experiences and expertise, and then encourage us to be both bold and independent.
We took the Minister at her word and from from the very start, when we've been asked for interim recommendations, those recommendations have been developed in budget measures. Just last week one of our first recommendations about increasing paid parental leave, ended up in legislation introduced into Parliament here, extending paid parental leave to 26 weeks by 2026. So, where we’ve asked to give advice immediately that had budget aspects those recommendations have largely been followed. The Expenditure Review Committee of Cabinet has picked many of them up.
And so, today, in presenting our final report across five domains and seven key recommendations, we once again are giving to the minister and the government, what we believe is a proper assessment of the lives of women in this country today.
As the Minister has said with the data, which I won't repeat now. The big story is in this country, the data shows over and over that inequality for women is prevalent and persistent and it impacts a woman's public and private experience across the entirety of her lifetime. You just heard the Minister talk about the ambitions we have for girls and young women and then mid-career women. But we also have to hold on our thoughts that is women who have been the victims of these systems, who are in the numbers that tell us that the most likely person to end up in homelessness and poverty in Australia today is a woman over 60. So, homelessness comes about, and a degree of poverty comes about, because of the system that delivers a woman to that stage of her life, despite the fact that she's probably done most of the caring, either paid or unpaid, for the family and the community. We saw that through COVID. Or she's given up an opportunity to use her education over the course of her life and paid the parenthood penalty, or the motherhood penalty, as it has been to date. And the economy suffers as a result.
We consulted with women across the country, thousands of them, both individually and in groups. And the taskforce members brought their experience and those women's experiences to bear as well. And we heard the same thing over and over. It was that women are exhausted at having to make this argument to be considered an essential part of an economy when we're 50% of this economy and this community. And yet we're the last we thought of when it comes to impact on the economy more generally. And it's for that reason that the policies that are designed, in general, don't pick up the specific issues for women, which was identified in our report.
That means we've asked the Government to look very carefully at the processes of government itself, to make sure that there is gender assessment of policies that affect our communities. And for any matters that go into the Budget, that they have a proper gender assessment and are looked at through the lens of a woman's life in this country today. We've also asked for some immediate commitments to be made in relation to paid parental leave, childcare, to remove the activity test from the childcare system, to putting superannuation on paid parental leave, but we've gone much much further. And if you look at the depth of the report over the seven recommendations, we believe there are areas that need persistent and purposeful action by the Government and by our communities as a whole. It starts with the care economy, it then goes to work and who does the work, how is work compensated and who gets to do good work in Australia today. Work is highly gendered, gender -- I'm sorry. Work in Australia today is highly gender segmented and segregated. Women do 80 per cent of the caring roles in this country. Men have 75 per cent of the high paying roles that use their education to the fullest.
That level of segmentation is some of the worst in the world. So, work has to change. Education and skills over the life of a woman -- it's hard for a woman to have lifelong learning. Those are things that are kept mainly for men and seeing their advances both in terms of their income and of course their superannuation holdings. The tax and transfer system works perniciously often against women, yet women are often the predominant group that are reliant on the tax and transfer systems and the payment system. And then Government itself as a procurer of services, to be able to bend the buying power of the Government to actually favour those organisations -- those organisations that get gender equality right and women's organisations -- plays a powerful role.
So, we have 7 major recommendations. We want them to be seen in the context of the timing that Government can do. We're very conscious that we face a terribly difficult economy and fiscal situation. So our recommendations are clearly driven to make sure that the early investments are the ones that make the most sense. But we've listed our recommendations across a decade of work. And we hold some of those more expensive, large-scale changes until the back end of that decade, to say that none of this can be fixed overnight. But there are many things that can be dealt with in the early timeframe. And we're very, very clear about what those investments can be.
I want to pay respect to the women on the panel itself. They brought their entire experience, their courage, and they often had to step away from roles that they have in their business life to actually be leaders that are prepared to stand up and make recommendations that affect all women and girls in this country today. Of course, the net beneficiary of all this is not just women, it's the whole society. It's our communities and it's the economy. The cost of not doing what we've recommended, is far greater than any investment that's going to be required to build a gender equal Australia and I just don't know who is prepared today continue to bear the cost of our kids not being ready for school or women not using their education, or us not utilizing half of the population at the time that we need productivity lifted, it's an available asset, very simple levers to be pulled. And on behalf of the women of Australia, I'd encourage you to look deeply at the recommendations and consider these as investments in a much more enlightened, productive, and resilient economy, as well as showing respect to women. Thank you.
JOURNALIST: Minister, as Sam just said, a bunch of those recommendations are for immediate action and are fairly simple levers. Of those recommendations where the government isn’t already doing work on, how much of that are you committed to implementing straightaway or soon?
GALLAGHER: Well, these are -- the whole report is before Government now. So, I don't want to single out one recommendation over another. We're looking at all of them. And I think you'll see from the decisions we've taken in October and the decisions we took in May, that we are genuinely trying to shift the dial here within a budget that's under a fair bit of stress, looking at how we can use the money we have available to really drive some of the change we need to do across the economy.
I mean, it just doesn't make sense to have people, 50 per cent of our population not working, you know, contributing into the economy in ways that they want to. And some of that is linked to childcare. Some of that's linked to, you know, support for caring roles. I mean, when you look at the data, it's so clear. And 70% of the part-time workforce in this country are women. You know, when the jobs went in the pandemic, the first jobs to go were largely women's jobs because we saw that, you know, insecure, casualised you know, because they have to sit around all the things that predominantly women are doing.
So all of this, in a sense, sits before us. There are some, perhaps, that will be easier than others to do, some that come with more costs, and I don't see it just as a cost. I do accept the very strong argument that the WEET women have put to me. That this comes with significant upsides to the economy and the budget in the long term. So we'll –
JOURNALIST: So can we expect some changes in the next budget, then? Is that likely?
GALLAGHER: Well, you know, those decisions have to be taken. It's before Government. I mean, I'm just not in a position to confirm or deny, but we have the report. It's very much in line, I think, with the direction the government wants to head and so we're looking at all of them seriously.
JOURNALIST: Do you have a more up to date costing for how much it would be to pay superannuation on paid parental leave?
GALLAGHER: Look, I don't have an up-to-date costing for you today.
JOURNALIST: I think it's 200 million?
GALLAGHER: I think it's a fair bit more than that, from the last briefing I had. But you know, this is one of those areas that Jim and I, the Treasurer and I, have been clear about. I think not only would it make a difference to women's long term retirement incomes, it also I think symbolically makes a difference about how we value the work that you do when you're caring for family, when you take breaks from the workforce, what that means. So we've made it no secret. This is something we want to see happen. We need to find room for it in the Budget. That is the recommendation of this report. And it's a recommendation I've received from others, and we're actively looking at it.
MOSTYN: Adding to that, we met women all over the country. And from a sense of belonging in this economy, one of the first things that they asked for is superannuation increases starting with paid parental leave. And so, of course, you build a superannuation account over the course of your life, and women end up with precarious superannuation balances, which leads to poverty. This is one aspect of it and it sends a very clear message, that the work that's done when on leave is valuable, and that you are not missing being attached to a superannuation fund. I chair a fund where 70 per cent of women in the fund come from the teaching and education sector and nursing sectors. They tell us all the time that the respect that is shown, if superannuation is added to that period, says so much about their legitimacy as workers. Most women said to us consistently, they would just like to use their education and their experience to become bigger taxpayers and be seen as contributors, rather than constantly seen through the lens of a drain on society or as a carer that doesn't deserve to be recompensed for their care work, the work they're doing today or the full use of their education.
We have the highest levels of education in the world for women. The World Economic Forum held us at the number one spot for 20 years, but when it comes to the use of that education for a productive part of the economy, we fall catastrophically. We've made some progress in recent years with the Minister's work and closing that gap. But we are still not utilising the education of women. And all of our policies seem to me to have been designed, previously, on the idea of post-war design of a family that had a primary breadwinner that was a man and a woman but then she had children with that man. And typically, she would do the caring and her income was forever dependent on his income.
We don't live in that world anymore. We live in a world where most families have two working parents just to make ends meet. Where women want to work as much as men. Where there are all sorts of arrangements and family, but these policies no longer really reflect that. It's got to be a contemporary community that is actually using the best of your resources. The policies have got to be contemporary and reflect that.
JOURNALIST: On the issue of extending paid parental leave, Sam, can you explain to us the rationale for recommending that it be not only increased to 52 weeks but paid at a replacement wage? And Minister, is that something that you think could politically be implemented, yes, over the long term, over 10 years?
MOSTYN: We were clear in the report and our first recommendation was to get to 26 weeks, which has happened. So, six months with some components that has reservation for the second parent so that there's an element of use it or lose it at 2026. The purpose of that is to ensure that a second parent, generally a man, is encouraged to take the lead in larger numbers over larger time periods. So that's the start of it. The work has been done across the OECD countries that actually have the most effective paid parental leave schemes where children benefit, families benefit, women and men get back into the workforce in a better state to have up to 52 weeks with high levels of use it or lose it components that you can only do when you've got a year to play with. And we see a dramatic shift in who takes the lead. More and more men, more and more fathers take that leave. It works better for contemporary families. But we recommend it, you will note, as one of the longer-term recommendations under PPL, in the 5 to 10 year period ahead. We made a suggestion that came from our experts that you could simply increase the allocation by two weeks for every year into the future until you've got to 52 weeks, so it wasn't a huge change in the economy. But there are ways to do that. But we understand the fiscal environment and getting to six months is a significant commitment to families across the country.
JOURNALIST: Just on the issue of a replacement wages, sorry --
MOSTYN: So, at the moment the paid parental leave scheme that the government funds is paid at the minimum wage. Again, best practice tells us that this works best when the person taking that leave, generally a woman, is able to maintain the wage she's on when she takes that leave, rather than a big gap between her wage and the minimum wage. We also know that men do not take the leave when it's paid at minimum wage. They understand the economics of that very clearly. Women have always born that loss. So, replacement wage is a standard in countries that have done this well. And it doesn't apply necessarily to good employers who are already doing this. So the best employers in the country pay large numbers of weeks for PPL at replacement wage and see that as an incredibly important part of retaining people who are attached to their organisations, grows their culture and shows respect for those that do take leave.
GALLAGHER: I think -- to the second part of the question Nour -- we've made the changes to PPL that we're trying to legislate through the Parliament now. So that'll be the focus over the next couple of years if that increases to 26 weeks. But I would say I don't think it's any surprise that, you know, governments will need to consider how you improve access to support when you have a caring role. I mean, part of what we're trying to shift here is that it's not just seen as women's work that's undervalued, that it is a job that the family unit, whatever shape that might be, takes on to support the family. And again, we see it in all of the data in this report about who's doing the paid or the unpaid leave. I think the paid parental leave system, the public system at the moment is good in that it recognises this timing of families likely trying to work to make sure that we're incentivising the second parent to take that leave. But I don't think it'd be any surprise that as we go forward we'll need to look at ways to continue to improve that.
JOURNALIST: On another issue, Minister. What was the timeframe for the Government coming up with a new plan on Closing the Gap and Reconciliation? And will this be done in partnership with the same Indigenous leaders that proposed the Voice to Parliament?
GALLAGHER: Look, I think the Prime Minister and the Minister for Indigenous Affairs have made it clear that we will work with First Nations organisations. Some of them will be the leaders that were involved in the referendum, but at organisational level, about practical ways to Close the Gap. That's pretty clear. If there was one agreement out of that weekend, was that everybody wants to see improvements to Close the Gap. Now, some of that we've already got underway, but there's more to be done, like the package for Central Australia that Minister Burney is implementing that goes to a number of those issues about housing and education and support for families. But there's a lot more to be done. And we'll continue to work with First Nations organisations about how we do that.
JOURNALIST: Is there a timeframe for a whole new strategy?
GALLAGHER: Well, that's not a matter that would come across my desk. I think in the short term and you know, we've only -- we've had a week where a lot of those First Nations organisations have wanted some time out to consider the outcomes of the Referendum. But I have no doubt that we would be working with -- well, we are working with them in an ongoing sense. I mean, this work, it never, never ceases. We are working closely with First Nations organisations. But the way forward, I think that is yet to be determined and the Government will remain actively involved in that.
MOSTYN: Minister can I just add one feature that brings us today's announcement, it was clear from the design of the Voice that one of the principal design elements was 50 per cent representation of women in the voice so that the issues affecting women and communities would be heard through the experience of women. That was a really important part of the design the Voice which meant a lot to us in the work we did in the Taskforce. We opened our report with an acknowledgement that it was not appropriate for us as a group of largely non-Indigenous women who didn't have representation to design a system that would be appropriate for those communities. Where it's clear from June Oscar's work and the various reports that have come through -- about how to end violence, how to Close the Gap, or women's experiences of the economy and society -- needs specific attention of, of groups of First Nations women to lead that. And so, we make a recommendation for that to be a separate framework that's led by effectively a voice on women's economic opportunities that intersects with the national plan to end violence across our entire community and the outcomes of June Oscar's report. So it was an important feature of our report not to assume things about a community as important as that, that would need a separate piece of work to continue. And that goes on without any constitutional change.
JOURNALIST: Minister from early next year, companies are going to start reporting their gender pay gaps under legislation introduced by your government. It's going to be shocking for a lot of people. But very similar legislation has been in place in the UK for some time, and we've just seen the gender pay gap there stall, effectively stop closing. Are you sure that this legislation, your government will still be able to close the gap with this new legislation. And just for the Chair as well, there's a stunning fact that 30 per cent Australian men don't think gender inequality exists. Do you think enacting the changes in this report will help reduce that number or do you think broader change is needed? And what can the government do on that?
GALLAGHER: Well, on the legislation, yes, I do think it will change things. Firstly, it'll shine some light into organisations that have perhaps been masked by an industry cohort. And I think industry is going to be pretty interested about it too, because I've had a number of discussions with businesses that have worked really hard to close their gender pay gap but are still members of an industry where the gap looks very large. So someone in that industry isn't doing much at all. So I think, for businesses themselves that are trying to do the right thing, it's going to be interesting, and I think for those that have a significant gender pay gap, they're going to have to change the way they do things because we know customers and employees make decisions about, you know, how companies are performing in a range of areas.
So I think, definitely that will help shine some light. So on the other, you know, in terms of what's happening in the UK on the persistency, I mean, this goes to the other point, which is about the gender segregated nature of our economy. You know, if we could get some more men in aged care, working at the levels where we see predominantly women you would see a change in the gender pay gap. In the public service where the gender pay gap is at 5.2 per cent, I think around that in the Commonwealth, we've drilled down to sort of see what exactly is driving that gap. Because, you know, for a large part, it runs on pay classifications. We have women increasingly in senior positions. And it's almost exclusively because our large workplaces like Services Australia, Centrelink, are predominantly women. And again, if you've got more of a gender balance into that, you would deal with the gender pay gap. So part of it is reporting. Making sure organisations are doing the right thing about trying to close it, but the other part is trying to blow open this, you know, gender segregated labour market that we have, whether it be mainly men in construction, men still predominantly in managerial positions and women in the care and healthcare sector that we see those big distortions.
MOSTYN: So the Minister has covered most of the data and I think needs to be congratulated -- the Minister and Government -- for those recommendations and their legislation on Workplace Gender Equality are all terribly important. As are the appointments of gender experts at the Fair Work Commission, looking at the wages and conditions for many of these sectors. So they are very important issues. There will be shocking data coming through. I've served on boards where we've taken that data up through an organisation and looked at it. It means you have to do things very differently and be accountable.
On your broader comment about the 30 per cent of men who believe we've achieved gender equality. There are far more damaging and shocking statistics that come out of the National Community Attitudes Survey that's run every two years in this country that show most men don't believe that women actually experience violence at greater rates than men and that they don't believe the perpetrators are a real issue. So there's lots in our community that goes to deep-seated attitudes towards the rights of women to be equal. So, gender equality issues are pervasive we think our recommendations go a long way towards that, but the numbers -- that seventh recommendation, which goes to the Government investing in programs to address those attitudes, our number one recommendation is to implement and resource the national strategy to achieve gender equality. And that is a community attitudes program that we have to do over the next few years. And it has to be one that really lands with communities to understand that gender equality is not just about women, it's about creating communities where everyone is equal, everyone can prosper. We get rid of these old-fashioned notions of a segregated world. Women have taken that brunt in this country for decades and decades. And it was quite clear in our work that if we don't we don't deal with those attitudinal issues, we'll continue to see high levels of violence and disrespect, the gender pay gap not being dealt with. So all of these things work together. And I have a really strong sense that the time is right to do this. Women certainly want this, as do men who are actually the great victims of this as well, who have to live in a highly gendered world were behaving a certain way it makes it difficult for men to be their true selves. So this is a program for all that starts with supporting the gender equality.
JOURNALIST: Minister. I want to ask about the High Court decision on Victoria's EV tax. One of the judges in that case accused the Commonwealth of taking an unprecedented interpretation of section 90 of the Constitution, and that would turn the states into "fiscal minions". Could I please ask, what work did the Albanese Government do to assess what the fiscal balance implication of joining that case would be before you decided to do that?
GALLAGHER: I think that's probably a matter you should raise with the Attorney-General. I don't have anything further to add to that. These are decisions, as to whether you join particular case or not, it's a matter for the Attorney.
JOURNALIST: Does the Finance Department or the Treasury do any work to consider how it will affect the tax balance before you weigh in?
GALLAGHER: I imagine there would be discussions across Government. But the decision about joining cases is a matter for the Attorney-General and the question should be to him or his office.
JOURNALIST: Do you think Mike Pezzullo did enough to declare a conflict of interest and will the Government make the inquiry public?
GALLAGHER: Sorry, what is this in relation to?
JOURNALIST: The Mike Pezzullo case.
GALLAGHER: Right. Into the matters that are currently under investigation? Well, my answer will be that those matters are currently under investigation. I don't think there's anything useful I can add while they are being determined. You know, that's a matter that is being led by Lynelle Briggs and through the APSC and it's appropriate that they be given the time to finish that investigation. Thank you very much.