PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Pleas to block a recently approved billion dollar fertiliser plant in WA have been heard by the federal government. Traditional Owners had been heavily pressuring the Environment Minister to intervene in the construction of the planned Burrup Peninsula plant which they say removes their cultural property, the world's oldest rock art. Here's traditional owner, Raelene Cooper speaking to RN breakfast earlier this week.
RAELENE COOPER: Right now currently today, possibly tomorrow possibly there will be a Juukan Gorge again another disaster a reckless behaviour and irresponsible behaviour from our now government.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: That's Raelene Cooper, a traditional owner speaking to us before the pause, overnight Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek has told the company behind the project Perdaman to pause any construction work while her office assesses the concerns that have been put to them. Linda Burney is the Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians. Linda Burney, welcome to the program.
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: How long will this pause be in place for?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: My understanding it is for 30 days. But there is obviously legal issues at play. So I'll be very careful in what I'm saying. You are absolutely correct. The Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek is considering a section nine application. That's within her responsibilities to do so. And she's spoken to me about it. I've actually visited the Burrup Peninsula, it's an amazing place. It's so amazing, that there is an application to the World Heritage body in UNESCO, between the traditional owners and the Western Australian Government on foot at the moment.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: When I had traditional owner Raelene Cooper on the program this week, she said she invited you to the area with her. She wants you to do that. Will you accept that offer?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Look, I haven't had any direct conversations with Raelene but obviously that is an invitation that should be accepted. I have actually visited there. There is petroglyphs absolutely everywhere. And the company that you're referring to Perdman has agreed to cease work while the application is being decided.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: She also told me that you said you didn't see any rock art in the area?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Well I'm not quite sure where that's come from Patricia, because I certainly saw lots of rock art and my visit there it was incredibly memorable. I remember how close the ocean was. And just the proliferation of rock art was absolutely astounding. And the actual, the term that you hear First Nations people use - the Country is singing to you, the land is talking to me - is absolutely felt there. And it's a living, breathing thing when it comes to First Nations people. And that's the importance of heritage.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Indigenous heritage is obviously incredibly important. And even the report that came out after the Juukan Gorge travesty for this country, which is just unspeakable that actually happened was: never again. Will you ensure that there is never again that this sort of thing never happens under your watch?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: We will do our very, very best to do so. Patrick Dodson, and the member for Lingiari at the time, Warren Snowdon participated in the investigation into Juukun. And it was considered very seriously by the Labor Party when we were in opposition, and there is also a commitment that we will develop a stand-alone cultural heritage legislation. And that's a very firm commitment from the Labor Party going forward.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: There has to be a sense of urgency around this given projects like this? I mean, there's a 30 day pause but clearly the legislation won't be ready for post 30 days. How will you deal with this dilemma?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: So, Tanya Plibersek, the Environment Minister and myself, are meeting with the Aboriginal Heritage Alliance in the first sitting of Parliament, and will take our direction from that group, I've met them once and they are a very impressive group of people that have a deep understanding of heritage and the importance of it, and the protection of it. I've met with the international head of Rio Tinto, who is responsible for Juukan and received an apology from him and have an ongoing discussion with the company. And I do think you're right, Patricia, that Juukan was a massive wake up call, not just within Australia, but the outcry was from around the world, and I think that was very much listened to. And it has moved the dial substantially in Australia, about the importance of Aboriginal cultural heritage, but it is all our all our heritage, and it is the oldest in the world.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Certainly is, do you believe traditional owners have been properly consulted on this project so far?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Again, I am not in a position to say whether they have or they have not obviously, what we've heard from from the Raelene, the person that you referred to earlier, feels that there hasn't been consultation, but I can assure you absolutely, that the Environment Minister, myself and our government is taking this absolutely seriously, particularly in the wake of Juukan.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Let's move to some other issues also in front of you at the moment. And if you're just tuning in, this is Radio National Breakfast and our guests is the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Linda Burney. The Opposition has committed to keeping an open mind on the referendum for Voice to Parliament. Have you advanced that at all? They say they need more detail, have you provided them with more detail for trying to get them on board?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: I have met with Julian Leeser, and have had some discussions with him. I haven't had any direct discussions with all of the Opposition, I've met with the crossbench. And obviously talking to the Greens, I know that the Prime Minister has raised this issue with all the First Ministers at the National Cabinet to get an in-principle agreement on moving forward and supporting a referendum. I'm really emboldened Patricia, by the incredible support out there in the community. But I also know that this has to be, we have to make the argument properly. And we are doing so, that this enshrinement of a voice in the Constitution is not just symbolism, it has to have, and this is absolutely and properly what the Opposition is saying. It has to have real life impacts on the lives of First Nations people in the community and I completely accept that. And that is why the enshrinement of voice is so very, very important.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Indigenous academic and co-chair of the senior design group on the voice Marcia Langton has warned of the danger in asking Australians to vote for a Voice to Parliament without actually being able to give them the detail. And she wants legislation, for it be legislated, so there's an architecture, an answer. Do you think that's possible and it should happen that way?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Look, the points that I want to make are these that this is not just symbolic, it is going to have real impacts on the lives of First Nations people. The second point is that I am not going to be rushed into timelines. We will do this properly. And the work that Marcia, people like Marcia and Tom and others have done over the last 10 years will be absolutely fundamental to the way in which we move forward. We will put in place appropriate governance structures to oversee the process but at the end of the day, this is about the Australian community.
This is a referendum of the Australian people. It is a huge undertaking. I've heard you talk many times about how high a mark referendum change in Australia. There's been something like 44 referendums and 8 have been successful and probably someone as young as yourself Patricia has never voted in a successful referendum. So there's a whole education package that we need to do and your point about how much detail will be put out there, there will be lots of information put out there over the coming months and, and, and the lead up to the referendum whenever we're going to hold it.
But I will be informed by the people I will consult with, including the Parliament, including my own party, and including First Nations people and the broader Australian community. It is a huge undertaking. And the task is about bringing people with you creating partnerships across, across the whole spectrum of the Australian community. That is how you get a successful referendum.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Now the Prime Minister has said you don't need bipartisanship to go forward. But do you want bipartisanship? You think it's risky not to have?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: The ideal is to have bipartisanship, of course. But I agree with the PM, that the Australian community is ready for this change. We will seek bipartisanship. And I would find it incredulous for people not to support what is a very generous and gracious ask. Remember that this is an advisory body only. It is not usurping the sovereignty of the Parliament. It is not a third chamber – it is a gracious request from First Nations people to permanently enshrine a voice in the Constitution, completing our birth certificate. And the final point that I've made is, as far back as John Howard, Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison, Malcolm Turnbull, all of those people have in one way or another, wanted recognition in the Australian Constitution of First Nations people. And this is how we're going to do it.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: The way it progresses through Parliament, the enabling legislation is really key here. Is it your view that there will be equally funded no and yes campaigns? Or can it be designed like, Well, can you walk me through that? Because that's quite key, and it hasn't yet been talked about?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: That's a very good point. And the Attorney General is the appropriate person to talk to about this, because it'll be his job to bring in the enabling legislation, including legislation to create a referendum, you can't just say, we're going to have a referendum, and there's got to be legislation and agreement that a referendum will take place. And whether or not these changes to the Referendum Act will answer that very question that you're posing, Patricia. And that is will there be a funded yes or no case? No decision has been made about that. But certainly, it will be made very clear when those decisions are made.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Just finally, you say you don't want to be rushed to a timeline. But do you, is next year the plan? If it's not cooked already, in your view, are you prepared to delay it?
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: This will be done properly. There is no set timeline, except it will happen in the first term of our government - Prime Minister has made that incredibly clear. And obviously, that is one of the key questions that we'll be consulting on. And I'm sorry, I can't give you an answer today. But we will do this properly, we will do it thoroughly, we will do it by way of building coalitions.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Linda Burney, I'll see you in Garma next week.
LINDA BURNEY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: See you in Garma
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: That's the Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians.